Script Registry -- for script authors; track your script usage
- Thread starter zarqon
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According to wiktionary, kludge rhymes with fudge, budge, judge. That's how I say it.
Also according to wiktionary both ways of saying regex are accepted
Also, as far as I am concerned, regex/regexp is just short for regular expression and, therefore, the three are synonymous.
Also according to wiktionary both ways of saying regex are accepted
Also, as far as I am concerned, regex/regexp is just short for regular expression and, therefore, the three are synonymous.
StDoodle
Minion
Sadly, the habits foisted on me by modern advertising have resulted in a hard-g for the first, most of the time. But if I think about it, I usually try for the classic "soft" pronunciation. Like the ancient Greeks, or better yet, Doc Brown.
Winterbay
Active member
Not so interesting trivia info: KoL is the Swedish abbreviation for COPD (which is why I pronounce the game as kay-oh-el and not as a single unity because that makes my head go to strange places)...
Mostly hard g for the first one and a soft for the second one. The second one is a word that changes hardness depending on situation in Swedish so it may get a hard g as well from time to time. Also, are the word really related? I mean giga-byte is a mathematical prefix followed by something counted while gigantic has nothing to do with that same prefix, or has it?
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According to dictionary.com, "giga-" comes from Greek "gigas", meaning "giant" and "gigantic" comes from Latin "gigant" meaning "giant".
Edit: FYI, the Wikipedia entry for "Giga-" says:
And an Online Etymology Dictionary says this about "giant":
and this about "giga-"
You are not REALLY questioning that these are closely related words, are you?
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According to that page, both pronunciations are accepted and the page history says that "auto-rhyme-bot" well, automatically added the rhyme based on the first pronunciation listed.
In my 40 years of interacting with programmers and computer science students and such, I have never, ever heard it pronounced as rhyming with "fudge". I believe the first time I heard it spoken was from the mouth of someone from the MIT AI Lab in the mid-70s. I'm in Boston now, and I still know lots of MIT educated/affiliated programmers. They all pronounce it "klooj".
I guess you and I run in different circles
zarqon
Well-known member
I'm delighted that this fascinating linguistic discussion is happening simply due to a throwaway question I asked at the end of an otherwise on-topic post.
Prior to this discussion, I said redge-ex (it blends pleasantly that way). I'm still going with that -- I've seen no convincing evidence that it's not simply a matter of preference.
I also said kludge in a way that rhymes with judge, because that's how it's spelled. However, after reading comments here and then, promptly, Michael Quinion's article on the word's origin (and I always go to him first, certainly before Wiktionary -- his website is an international treasure of the English language), I've decided I ought to change my pronunciation to klooj (closer to the source word, from German), and possibly even change my spelling to 'kluge', since otherwise that 'dge' contraindicates the desired pronunciation. For those without the time or inclination to click the link (hopefully none of you), here's a persuasive bit of info:
Thanks for the interesting and educational discussion, all!
Prior to this discussion, I said redge-ex (it blends pleasantly that way). I'm still going with that -- I've seen no convincing evidence that it's not simply a matter of preference.
I also said kludge in a way that rhymes with judge, because that's how it's spelled. However, after reading comments here and then, promptly, Michael Quinion's article on the word's origin (and I always go to him first, certainly before Wiktionary -- his website is an international treasure of the English language), I've decided I ought to change my pronunciation to klooj (closer to the source word, from German), and possibly even change my spelling to 'kluge', since otherwise that 'dge' contraindicates the desired pronunciation. For those without the time or inclination to click the link (hopefully none of you), here's a persuasive bit of info:
Thanks for the interesting and educational discussion, all!
Winterbay
Active member
But that German word is pronounced with a hard k-sound at the end. Nothing like what I imagine klooj to be pronounced as. And also with a o-sound that is sadly lacking from English I think.
Theraze
Active member
Nope, no umlaut. While the comparative and superlative forms of it use the delightful sound lacking in English, the direct positive form uses only sounds found in English. Useless wiktionary link which supports the German used in my family and schools I've attended.
And yeah... even with my Germanic roots (besides my first definitive word being Coca Cola, my first discernible language was German, not English), I've still always heard it as rhyming with judge. Might be a East/West coast thing. I'm on the West coast, Veracity's on the East... does this support other people's location/understandings of the general pronunciation?
Useless wiktionary link which supports the German used in my family and schools I've attended.And yeah... even with my Germanic roots (besides my first definitive word being Coca Cola, my first discernible language was German, not English), I've still always heard it as rhyming with judge. Might be a East/West coast thing. I'm on the West coast, Veracity's on the East... does this support other people's location/understandings of the general pronunciation?
xKiv
Active member
Blood. Flood, brood. Wood, hood, mood, dood.
But isn't that (kluge=clever) what you are supposed to be when you make a kludge (which I understand to be something that a smart person might patch together quickly and effectively, as opposed to slowly cooking a proper solution, or a non-smart person not being able to fix the issue at all)?
zarqon
Well-known member
Find me another English word containing "<consonant><vowel>dge" where the vowel is long and you'll have a point. So far as I know, in all other English words containing that pattern, the vowel is short. And even if other such exceptions to the rule do exist, the vast majority of readers encountering the word for the first time will -- reasonably -- assume the short 'u'.
So it appears we have an ugly situation here regarding standardization -- we can spell it "kludge" which will promulgate the short 'u' pronunciation and further distance the word from its origin, or we can spell it "kluge" to stay closer to the source while more accurately following English phonics rules, which in turn confuses some people into thinking it's actual German and they'll make it two syllables with a hard 'g'! We could spell it "klooj", but that doesn't seem likely to catch on and actually detaches the word from its origin in a different sense (it then appears of Dutch or Scandinavian origin).
In short, we can't win. It is irreparably a word rife with localization and preference. Screw you, J. W. Granholm, this is all your fault.
xKiv
Active member
You appear to think that the English language is logical and follows rational rules. Do you want some help with that misconception?
+1 except I heard it at Carnegie Mellon in the '70's.
Winterbay
Active member
I don't think I've ever heard it spoken (apart from in my mind) and as such the conclusion, based on the fact that no other word spelled in that way that I know of change the pronunciation that much, was to pronounce it as "judge". I think I'll continue with that because klooj just sounds too odd
That said, my favourite thing on pronunciation in English is this poem (The Chaos by Charivarious), it's awesomely confusing
That said, my favourite thing on pronunciation in English is this poem (The Chaos by Charivarious), it's awesomely confusing
zarqon
Well-known member
Bale, yes and no. What that means is Donavin re-registered all his scripts, thus overwriting the old data file, since it read it as having 0 entries (unable to deserialize) but could overwrite it just fine. AHHHH!!!
Good thing there are daily backups!
Since birthdays, kingdom events, server lockouts, tests of proficiency in Korean, and illness have all conspired against this getting fixed with any modicum of rapidity, not to mention I now have two data files to merge into the new system regardless, I'm going to say proceed with re-registration and continue using the old registry. I strongly doubt we'll reach 100K again before I'm done with the rewrite. When I've finished I will take the old date file and the new one we've built and merge them into the new system.
@xKiv: Hehehe. English is rather a hot mess; I teach it every day to non-native speakers, so I deal with its idiosyncrasies daily. But I'm a bit surprised at your comment, which appears to discount etymology, lexicography, and linguistics as valid sciences. The rules are descriptive and not prescriptive, but that doesn't make them illogical. Spelling matters and is indicative of pronunciation(s) -- I don't teach general pronunciation rules to my ESL students to screw with their minds, but because they are genuinely helpful rules for the majority of situations. Where they don't apply, it's usually a word which came to us from another language, complete with its other-language spelling and other-language pronunciation rules, and the spelling is a clue as to which language and thus which pronunciation rules. Often, multiple rulesets apply and are equally valid (such as the varying pronunciations of "buffet"). That makes English both all-inclusive and almost impenetrably complicated, but not senseless.
@Winterbay: I seem to recall reading that poem long, long ago, but rereading it now, it was as fresh and delicious as if it were the first time. It's marvelous! Thanks for sharing.
Good thing there are daily backups!
Since birthdays, kingdom events, server lockouts, tests of proficiency in Korean, and illness have all conspired against this getting fixed with any modicum of rapidity, not to mention I now have two data files to merge into the new system regardless, I'm going to say proceed with re-registration and continue using the old registry. I strongly doubt we'll reach 100K again before I'm done with the rewrite. When I've finished I will take the old date file and the new one we've built and merge them into the new system.
@xKiv: Hehehe. English is rather a hot mess; I teach it every day to non-native speakers, so I deal with its idiosyncrasies daily. But I'm a bit surprised at your comment, which appears to discount etymology, lexicography, and linguistics as valid sciences. The rules are descriptive and not prescriptive, but that doesn't make them illogical. Spelling matters and is indicative of pronunciation(s) -- I don't teach general pronunciation rules to my ESL students to screw with their minds, but because they are genuinely helpful rules for the majority of situations. Where they don't apply, it's usually a word which came to us from another language, complete with its other-language spelling and other-language pronunciation rules, and the spelling is a clue as to which language and thus which pronunciation rules. Often, multiple rulesets apply and are equally valid (such as the varying pronunciations of "buffet"). That makes English both all-inclusive and almost impenetrably complicated, but not senseless.
@Winterbay: I seem to recall reading that poem long, long ago, but rereading it now, it was as fresh and delicious as if it were the first time. It's marvelous! Thanks for sharing.