New Content Step right up! Post monster Meat and/or item drop spading here!

Ryo_Sangnoir

Developer
Staff member
Made some progress on bureaucrat: 145 dropped the government requisition form, so it's probably 25%.

Fungal Nethers, as SC:

angry mushroom guy:
* Knob mushroom: 20%
* fizzing spore pod: 70%

freaked-out mushroom guy:
* Knoll mushroom: 20%
* paisley spore pod: 70%

muscular mushroom guy:
* stinky mushroom: 20%
* veiny spore pod: 50%

70% drops determined using PFC as well: you can use the high-temperature mining mask and the old SCUBA tank to decrease your drop chances (and wish for Braaaaaains if you need more). Moving in increments of 5% should be enough, but if you want more precision you can use the BGE 'cuddly critter' shirt (7%), the outrageous sombrero (3%) or the Colonel Mustard's Lonely Spades Club Jacket (0-5%, ask the talking spade)
 

Ryo_Sangnoir

Developer
Staff member
Checked the sewer gator: skin is 15% and both nuggets are 20% each.

In general, I trust the wiki for this area: goldfish has both nuggets at 20% and the liver at 15%.

C.H.U.M. has the nuggets at 20%, the schnapps at 15%, and some complexity in the knife and lantern: both 1% each but only possible drops if the image displays a knife or lantern, so 3/5 and 1/5 respectively.

I'll look into the chieftain tomorrow.
 

Ryo_Sangnoir

Developer
Staff member
I looked into the Overgrown Lot instead, but missed that the NC is forced and kept losing my PFC.

sewer snake with a sewer snake in it
* carton (100% and 30%)
* sewer snake (30%)

each other monster has one thing at 100%: it's on the wiki, but I'll mention it again after I check the other drops.
 

Ryo_Sangnoir

Developer
Staff member
Checked the chieftain: both schnapps are 30%, both nuggets are 40%. Didn't check the knife: the others are double the CHUM drops, so 2% is likely, I think.

Also checked the toxic beastie: Three drops at 35%, 5%, 5%. There's some talk on the discussion page about item drop reduction / ignoring item drop: I didn't see anything like that.

Everything back to SSBBHax on the previous page doesn't seem to have been added yet.
 

fronobulax

Developer
Staff member
See r20256 for the CHUM Chieftain and the toxic beastie.

I didn't understand what "SSBBHax on the previous page" meant, but when I went back to explain why, I realized it was a post by SSBBhax. So I will go back an look momentarily.

I was kind of surprised no one, including me, had picked up on this. In my case when I see comments like "Didn't check the knife: the others are double the CHUM drops, so 2% is likely, I think." I'm not sure what to do. Do I wait for someone to check the knife or do I put in 2% as possibly bad data or do I check and realize what is there is 0 so in some sense anything non-zero is better, even if it is wrong?

I also appreciate when the canonical name of the monster is included and the items being dropped. I can guess but the greater my confidence that I am doing accurate data entry, the more likely I am to do it.

Anyway I'll try and pick up some more but as someone who doesn't spade and is just editing a file I'd love clearer instructions.
 

Ryo_Sangnoir

Developer
Staff member
In my case when I see comments like "Didn't check the knife: the others are double the CHUM drops, so 2% is likely, I think." I'm not sure what to do. Do I wait for someone to check the knife or do I put in 2% as possibly bad data or do I check and realize what is there is 0 so in some sense anything non-zero is better, even if it is wrong?

Very much up to you. Personally I'd prefer to have them in if I have some approximate idea of where there are, because it's more useful than "0" as you say. I wouldn't ascribe them the same level of confidence as the PFC spading, but there is a lot of valid spading done using the simpler methods (run ~100 turns with varying item, use statistics, round to nearest 5).

Even a properly spaded droprate is not certain to still be correct: e.g. bookbat's tattered scrap of paper rate has steadily dropped.
 

Veracity

Developer
Staff member
Code:
Monster 'the ghost of Phil Bunion' (1352) drops 35 but Wiki says 72

You're fighting the ghost of Phil Bunion

You bash your foe in the head with your pygmy concertinette, knocking him silly.
Some Meat gets knocked loose and lands in your backpack!

You gain 15 Meat.
Revision 20331 gives him 30. It also sets his drops to be 100.
 

Lyft

New member
I spaded florist friars item drop (Rutabeggar, Stealing Magnolia, and Horn of Plenty) interaction with broken champagne bottle and steely eyed squint.

Champagne doubles florist item drop.

Squint does not double the plant item bonus.
 

lostcalpolydude

Developer
Staff member
I spaded florist friars item drop (Rutabeggar, Stealing Magnolia, and Horn of Plenty) interaction with broken champagne bottle and steely eyed squint.

Champagne doubles florist item drop.

Squint does not double the plant item bonus.

The code in KoLmafia currently assumes that everything doubled by one source is also doubled by the other source. I think any change to not assume that will be nontrivial. I also remember being surprised that all the doubling calculations when considering both modifiers actually worked properly, both in prediction and once they are both active, so I stopped touching the code at that point.

I can see how the inaccuracy makes spading item drop rates more complicated, and might confuse a Hobopolis boss killer, but I'm not inclined to try handling that case and complicate the code further.
 

Rinn

Developer
Got the monster id for Sssshhsssblllrrggghsssssggggrrgglsssshhssslblgl today:

Code:
[3896] Evoke Eldritch Horror
Encounter: Sssshhsssblllrrggghsssssggggrrgglsssshhssslblgl
*** Monster 'Sssshhsssblllrrggghsssssggggrrgglsssshhssslblgl' has monsterId = 2012 and image 'eldboss.gif'
 

Ryo_Sangnoir

Developer
Staff member
Started checking the Oasis. First interesting change from the swarm of scarab beatles: the jackets are all 5%, not 1%. I got a different jacket each time, so I assume that it rolls before combat to decide which jacket you have a chance at, and then if you get the 5% roll you get that jacket.
 

VladYvhuce

Member
Junksprite metals are all 15% drop rate base, according to the wiki. Location: The Old Landfill.
Junksprite Bender: bent scrap metal (15% chance).
Junksprite Melter: molten scrap metal (15% chance).
Junksprite sharpener: jagged scrap metal (15% chance).
Funky Junk Key has had a drop revamp, and supposedly becomes more likely with each combat.
Worse homes and gardens is apparently conditional, but I haven't found any info on what the condition is for it to drop.
 

VladYvhuce

Member
The new IOTM for January gives wandering monsters once every 13 combats. So far, I've encountered Void Slab, Void Guy, and Void Spider. Talking with my clan, these seem to share an item pool. So far it seems that they're guaranteed to drop one item at random. So far, I have encountered the following item drops from them (in no particular pattern): Void Hamburger (food), Void Lager (booze), and Void Stone (autosell for 500 meat, unknown if it'll do anything later).
 

b bandit

Member
Possessed sugar cubes from Sloppy Seconds Sundae are 15%, fighting only copied monsters (zoneless). I think there's some strange zone-based interaction here: the wiki page says max 20 drops per day -- is that all it is?

I would like to find out the drop rules for this zone. My instinct is that it might not be a straight 15% when adventuring in the zone. I have a pretty high drop rate at the beginning of a session and can try to make a script to keep track by printing out my item drop, and if a drop is missed.

I got around to making a working macrometeorite ccs script to target only sundaes

The wiki says limit 20 drops per day but that can at least be doubled by the Grey goose. I believe drops from use yhe force don't count either. I would be interested to know if the crappy cocktail drops count towards the 20 and if the cocktail dropping multiple items count as multiple hits. Same for wandering monsters.

I would love if there was a counter to tell how many drops are still available in the zone, but first we would need an accurate picture of how the drops work and I would like to help with that.

Edit:
Half way into spading and recording it looks like it is not a simple 15% rate in the zone, if I know how to calculate a guaranteed drop correctly, and the numbers mafia has is correct. Mafia says I have +840.17% item drop rate, and I just got a miss after only 8 drops.

My math says +567% should be enough to guarantee a drop if it's 15% base drop rate..
so if the equation is (base drop rate) * (1 + drop bonus percent / 100) Then it would be 15%* (1+5.67) = 100.05%

After 1 day of spading I think the 20 drop max in the wiki is wrong, or at least more complicated. I believe the difficulty might scale with additional drops, (or possibly just additional fights). My 9th combat failed to drop at around 840%. within the first 20 drops, +1135% will not guarantee a drop.

With Y=drop and X = no drop my session looked like this:

1Y 2Y 3Y 4Y 5Y 6Y 7Y 8Y X 9Y 10Y 11Y 12Y X 13Y X X 14Y 15Y X 16Y 17Y 18Y 19Y X 20Y X 21Y 22Y X X 23Y X X X X X X X X 24Y X X

The X after successful drop number 20 I cast "feel envy" and did not get a drop. Drop number 21 was a yellow ray. I know on 22 and I believe on 23 I also cast envy, so maybe it does something? 24 is a successful(?) yellow ray 100 turns later... and the two X's after that are additional yellow rays that gave no drops 100, and 200 turns after successful, (or perhaps coincidental?) yellow ray #2. All attempts were above 750% item drop, the 2nd half were around +1200% item drop

I also did 5 use the force towards the beginning yielding 5 sugar cubes. Each successful drop was doubled (minus the force ones), so I got 24x2+5 = 53 total Possessed sugar cubes.

Any advice on how to make sense of this or organize spading appreciated. Unfortunately I don't have the fair coin.
 
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Ryo_Sangnoir

Developer
Staff member
Any advice on how to make sense of this or organize spading appreciated. Unfortunately I don't have the fair coin.
There was a leak on this on the first Twitch video. The zone is "diminishdrops(10)" which is a 10% decrease in chance per zone drop. What that means exactly I don't know. If it works like NEP then it's for each drop individually, each drop you get halves the chance of the next one. Based on spading I did before I don't think it's that, and I think it might be global.

When you stop being able to YR it that might be the drop dropping below 1%, and failing the random roll? I figure this is the start of being extremely reliant on the exact drop mechanics.
 

b bandit

Member
There was a leak on this on the first Twitch video. The zone is "diminishdrops(10)" which is a 10% decrease in chance per zone drop. What that means exactly I don't know. If it works like NEP then it's for each drop individually, each drop you get halves the chance of the next one. Based on spading I did before I don't think it's that, and I think it might be global.

When you stop being able to YR it that might be the drop dropping below 1%, and failing the random roll? I figure this is the start of being extremely reliant on the exact drop mechanics.
Nice, this brings up a few questions for me and adds some direction. I can target the cocktail which has multiple drops and see if items become unobtainable sooner. It seems pretty clear that drone copies don't count as multiple drops.

Also, if yellow ray doesn't work below a certain drop rate, I wonder if the drop rate can be brought back up to make it work. That is to say, does drop rate for yellow ray get assessed before or after modifiers and before or after rolling the number to determine if a drop drops.

If yellow ray is after drop rate it is possible to raise low drop items up to make yellow ray work.

Also, same questions for "feel envy." First try missed, did the other casts have an effect, or just chance that they were hits. (Is there an item drop threshold for feel envy).

Also, same questions for "feel envy." First try missed, did the other casts have an effect, or just chance that they were hits. (Is there an item drop threshold for feel envy).

Edit: 2nd day of spading suggests that drop 21 is not! necessarily guaranteed by a yellow ray. I used a yellow ray on what would have been drop 21 today, and it didn't drop. I believe my item drop was similar to yesterday, maybe a little over 1000% and yesterday around 1200%.

Also of note: I got drops 21 to 24 today only after using the force 5 times. Yesterday that was the first thing I did. I'm wondering if that skill could somehow affect the ability to get more than 20 drops now.

Todays drops looked like this: Monster 1-15 dropped at around 1k item drop then failure at 939%. After that, upped to 1673% item drop which gave 16Y X 17Y 18Y 19Y 20Y X X X X X X. The last "X" (representing failed to drop) in that series is where I tried a yellow ray after I ran out of champagne. After that I did use the force 5 times, then I got 4 successful drops in a row at 1030% drop, followed by several of non drops at the same drop rate.

So for sure drop 21 is not guaranteed by yellow ray.
 
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