Feature - Implemented Choose appropriate LavaCo Lamp in Maximizer

I don't know if this is a bug or a feature.

There are three LavaCo Lamps.
Each gives an effect at rollover.
The red one gives you extra muscle stats.
The blue one gives you extra mysticality stats
The green one gives you extra moxie stats
Each also gives +5 adventures

I have all of them. When I go to the maximizer and maximize for adv, it always recommends the green one. Even if I have the blue one in inventory, it recommends "pull and equip green LavaCo Lamp". If I manually equip the blue one and maximize, it is content to leave it. But if I don't equip it first, it always prefers the green one.

Now, I am a Myst class and I happen to want the blue one (although I don't actually care in aftercore). The whole concept of "grants an effect after rollover" is new, and we don't actually have a modifier to reflect it. Hmm.

# ninjammies: Grants 50 Adventures of Morninja at Rollover
# ratskin pajama pants: Grants 40 Adventures of Pajama Party at Rollover
# Item blue LavaCo Lamp™: Grants 50 Adventures of Blue Eyed Devil at Rollover
# Item green LavaCo Lamp™: Grants 50 Adventures of Green Peace at Rollover
# Item red LavaCo Lamp™: Grants 50 Adventures of Red Menace at Rollover
# Sasq™ watch: Grants 30 Adventures of The Rich Get Richer at Rollover

I'm not sure what to suggest. I think having modifiers for "Rollover Effect" (and maybe "Rollover Effect Duration") could be interesting and maybe useful - but how the maximizer would use that info is unclear. Perhaps only when you are maximizing for "adv", which is the only time you are necessarily maximizing rollover gear.

But why always recommend the green LavaCo lamp over the blue one - even if the blue one is in inventory and the green one is in storage? They are both +5 Adventures.

Veracity said:

Perhaps only when you are maximizing for "adv", which is the only time you are necessarily maximizing rollover gear.

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PvP Fights would also fit into that category.

Right. Chances are, it would recommend something else in the offhand slot in that case, but you are absolutely right: adventures and pvp fights are both rollover gear maximizations.

I solved that by making use of a preAscensionScript which closets all three and a kingLiberatedScript that unclosets only the correct one. I probably shouldn't have to do that.

I was considering hard coding the tiebreaker comparison so that the mainstat Lava lamp is explicitly preferred, as I couldn't think of another appropriate way to do it. I haven't done so yet, though, as I wasn't sure how much people would be keen on it. (In run I wouldn't have it in Hardcore, I'd pull either none or only one in Softcore, and in aftercore would be usually more concerned with getting offstats up)

As there is a thread, I guess others are keen so I might revisit.

Maybe I should be instead considering rollover effects as a potential tiebreaker as a whole.

Would also have to not assume -tie on +Adv and +pvp gear, as it would no longer be true.

Bale said:

I solved that by making use of a preAscensionScript which closets all three and a kingLiberatedScript that unclosets only the correct one. I probably shouldn't have to do that.

Click to expand...

Do you empty Hagnk's when you free the king? I don't do that. I also have the "use closet" setting enabled, and the maximizer is perfectly happy to uncloset equipment and equip it.

Both of those decisions are due to PvP.

I think the "bug" part of my initial post is this: If I have two items which the maximizer thinks have identical effects - a blue lamp and a green lamp, each of which gives +5 rollover adventures, ignoring the rollover effect - and one is in inventory and the other is in storage (or presumably the closet), why does it think that pulling and equipping the one from storage is better than simply equipping the one in inventory? If nothing else, it is an extra server hit for the identical score.

At present it is because we only do that tiebreaking on identical items based on whether you have to buy them, make them or number of B's in beecore.

CheckedItem and MaximizerSpeculation could probably be expanded to make that hierarchy longer, and check current inventory. Probably easier than preferring one item over another based on evaluating their rollover effects.

r16315 prefers items with Rollover Effects to ones without, all else being equal, and prefers items in inventory to ones not in inventory.

It doesn't try to work out which Rollover effects are best, as that starts to get a little subjective.

Good enough, I think. I'll put the item I prefer into inventory, and that will do what I want/expect.

It also means it prefers Lava lamps to Sword/Staph, which my chat prefers!

I was just coming in to ask if it was possible to get the maximiser to choose the mainstat lamp, rather than always green. I can see why you might want the offstat lamp when you first break the prism, but not for any prolonged period of aftercore...

Closet your offstat lamps !

I think that is a good enough solution; just make sure that the specific lamp you want is in inventory and the others are not. That will even let you do whatever you want in aftercore to emphasize this or that offstat, if you want.

I've been happy with how this has worked for a long time. In my opinion, this Feature is Implemented.

Yeah, I hadn't thought of that...

Darzil said:

r16315 prefers items with Rollover Effects to ones without, all else being equal, and prefers items in inventory to ones not in inventory.

It doesn't try to work out which Rollover effects are best, as that starts to get a little subjective.

Click to expand...

Could it possibly compare the effect modifiers using the current tie-breaking algorithm? That seems reasonable, and would make the mainstat lamps preferred.

darkcodelagsniper said:

Could it possibly compare the effect modifiers using the current tie-breaking algorithm? That seems reasonable, and would make the mainstat lamps preferred.

Click to expand...

Although actually I would probably want : Prefer mainstat in run, prefer lowest offstat in aftercore until 200 or 250, depending on what equipment is available, then prefer mainstat if you are planning on fighting strong things, myst if planning to libram summon farm, mainstat if you are going for level 255, etc.

Or just go with whatever is in your inventory.

As the feature requestor is happy, am marking implemented.

I don't believe there is a robust way to decide what is best. If in aftercore you always want a mainstat lamp, right a prism break script to closet the others and uncloset it.

Darzil said:

I don't believe there is a robust way to decide what is best.

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Fair enough, but it seems that could equally be an argument against any tie-breaking algorithm for the maximizer.

The tie breaker is not robust. Your ability to write ASH is robust. The tie breaker is there for people who simply want something that's better than nothing.
Since that's when the tie breaker comes into play... you say "I want +item drop and don't really care about anything else, but don't disable the tie-breaker" and it sees that you only have 2 accessories that give item drop... what should it put into the third slot? Should it stay empty? No... use the tie breaker. So it gives you something that is better than nothing. Does it help with what you wanted? Nope. But it does something.

Yes. Tie-breaking is a non-robust method which makes assumptions about what kind of stat you might find desirable where you haven't otherwise expressed a preference. That was my point

Which is why, if you choose to, you can create a more robust alias. Not my longest alias, but I do need to lengthen it up again soon. Custom tiebreaker, allows giving override maximizations if you actually want to allow for beeosity or changing the standard weighting, and after you run it once, you can go to the maximization tab and consider items that need to be purchased, etc.

Like I said. The built-in tie-breaker is there for people who don't really care, but just want something that's better than leaving the slot empty. If you don't like it, don't use it. For people who consider defaults to be requirements rather than recommendations, the built-in tie-breaker is a godsend.