Feature - Rejected Protector Spirits are 5 seperate monsters

[Erich]

So thanks to Manuel, we can now extrapolate which spirit drops what:

http://kol.coldfront.net/thekolwiki/index.php/Talk:A_Protector_Spirit

maybe a little more time might be needed for it to be definitive, however with each spirit known it can save a turn to runaway from the dagger spirit.

Thoughts?

 

[xKiv]

I think this can be classified under blatant spoilers, but we can't just split into 5 different monsters - players without manuel (or before first factoids) wouldn't have anything in the page to disambiguate them.

 

[lostcalpolydude]

First, this would have to be based solely on the starting stats for the monster. If auto-attack is enabled, you could do deleveling or whatever before manuel stats are shown, and then it has to be reverse-calculated. That sounds a bit challenging.

Also, I don't understand how you save a turn by not getting stats from killing a monster.

 

[heeheehee]

First, this would have to be based solely on the starting stats for the monster. If auto-attack is enabled, you could do deleveling or whatever before manuel stats are shown, and then it has to be reverse-calculated. That sounds a bit challenging.

Also, I don't understand how you save a turn by not getting stats from killing a monster.

free runaway?

 

[lostcalpolydude]

I suppose if you're saving a free runaway for there just because spirits are hard to kill. Someone using lots of free runaways probably doesn't see the useless spirit as any different from the other useless monsters in the hidden city. I guess it matters for a 1 day casual run.

 

[slyz]

free runaway?

What Lost is saying is that there is nothing special about the dagger spirit, so the free runaway could be used on any other monster and give you the same benefit.

A free runaway also costs you stats. Using it in a lower level area would cost you less stats.

EDIT: Ah, I really should refresh threads that I loaded hours ago before posting in them.

 

[xKiv]

More importantly ... don't they also have starting-stat variation (which amounts to something like +-5 in each stat) and therefore there will be stat ranges where you can't tell which one it is, anyway?

 

[lostcalpolydude]

More importantly ... don't they also have starting-stat variation (which amounts to something like +-5 in each stat) and therefore there will be stat ranges where you can't tell which one it is, anyway?

Yeah, that makes this impossible to implement.

 

[Erich]

I thought that starting stat variation could be attributed to the Att. 156-162 / Def. 140-15 difference on all 5; if it was always assumed it was one monster with random drops, it seems fair to think there was variance in the stats, neh? I'm happy to be shown I'm wrong, though.

 

[Darzil]

The Monster Manuel data in the quest log gives the starting value, without variance. The actual attack shown in combat will be +/- 5 from that value.

 

[Bale]

it seems fair to think there was variance in the stats, neh? I'm happy to be shown I'm wrong, though.

I believe that you are wrong. I've tested the spirits in the Hidden City three times now. My third test was just a few minutes ago.

Three times the rough sphere was dropped by a spirit whose stats were 156/144.
Three times the mossy sphere was dropped by a spirit whose stats were 158/145.
Three times the cracked sphere was dropped by a spirit whose stats were 160/140.
Three times the smooth sphere was dropped by a spirit whose stats were 162/142.
Three times the obsidian dagger was dropped by a spirit whose stats were 160/144.

That is unlikely to be a coincidence. The above stats are determined by subtracting current +ML from the stats displayed by Manuel. For some unknown reason there appears to be no stat variance on these monsters. It is a very curious and perplexing fact, but I hope it makes you happy.

 

[Erich]

Ironically, you made me happy because you misread my thought process and showed I was right. I hypothesized that the initial stat variance was assumed because it was assumed that there was only one protector with a randomized drop, and not 5 with a static drop for each; the fact that there are 5 with no variance, each with a specific drop, does indeed make it seem not impossible to account for the specific drop instead of assuming a random drop.

So, even if my feature request is rejected still, I'm happy it's not impossible to implement due to the mistaken idea of variance.

 

[lostcalpolydude]

Monsters in general have variance. Apparently protector spirits are special in not having variance.

I still don't want to deal with accounting for any +ML and any deleveling from auto-attack. Maybe someone else is interested in doing that.

 

[Theraze]

And people who don't actually have the Manuel will still not be able to differentiate between them, so...

 

[xKiv]

Monsters in general have variance. Apparently protector spirits are special in not having variance.

Oh hey - wiki says: Fernswarthy's Basement monsters, scaling monsters, and bosses do not vary.
Maybe this is a "miniboss" situation? (protector spirits don't seem to be bosses, and can be instakilled (afaik), maybe the "scale"? They are uncopiable, right? Maybe any such special flag is enough to prevent variance?)

 

[lostcalpolydude]

I didn't make it that far down the page when I was reading earlier to make sure that I wasn't crazy about all 3 values varying for a normal monster. I would expect them to be bosses.

 

[xKiv]

Well, they don't seem to be bosses for the purposes of zombie brains, grinder or pvp boss score (I think? Can anybody test?)

 

[Winterbay]

Well, for boss brain purposes, neither is Ed (his brain is apparently in a jar in another room according to the explanation given to me by Gemelli when I reported it as a bug)

 

[Erich]

Not all bosses give badass pies:

http://kol.coldfront.net/thekolwiki/index.php/Knob_Goblin_Organ_Grinder

Some bosses have conditional one-shots, too. GMoB, NS #3, all Tower monsters, Gargantulihc, Protectors, etc.

So the boss flag doesn't guarantee generalized boss behaviour. That is to say:

Maybe any such special flag is enough to prevent variance?

It's most likely a boss flag.

 

[lostcalpolydude]

I'm sure there are several flags that people mix up and call them all "boss" flags. Just like there will probably be another flag soon for "always give a factoid if you don't have them all yet".