Bug - Fixed Combat modifier diminishing returns

[Rinn]

From the wiki Combat Frequency

If more than five modifiers are used to give +combat or +non-combat, the sixth effect only alters the chance by 1%. Underwater only effects are applied after diminishing returns are applied

Currently 6 non-underwater -combat modifiers will show a 30% change instead of 26%. I'm not entirely sure how the underwater effects are handled.

 

[Fluxxdog]

Hmm, tad ambiguous. Does have 3 +com and 3 -com cancel each other out or does one of them become the 1%? If the latter, which one? Do we end up with +4% com or -4% com? Honestly though, it seems a moot point. Practically, if you're gonna stack modifiers that much, you're gonna go one way or the other.

 

[lostcalpolydude]

If you have six net modifiers in one direction, the sixth one only contributes 1%. Sea-only modifiers are added after figuring that out.

I added that line to the wiki after doing the spading on it. How could it be stated more clearly?

One thing that is still unspaded is a 12 lb hound combined with 5 other +combat effects, or any weight between 6 and 29 lbs really, which on its own would add less than 5%. If I had to guess I would think that it goes 25.2%, 25.4%, and so on, and I would guess that 7 full modifiers give 27%, but there is absolutely no data to support (or refute) that guess.

 

[xKiv]

net modifiers in one direction

Some people might not notice that, or know what it means.
I am not 100% confident myself, but would consider it to mean "6 +NC modifiers and 1 +C modifier = only 5 net modifiers in NC direction".

 

[Fluxxdog]

If more than five modifiers are used to give +combat or +non-combat, the sixth effect only alters the chance by 1%. Underwater only effects are applied after diminishing returns are applied.

The way I read that is "Any combination of +com and +non-com totaling more than 5". If that's not the case, it would be clearer as:

If more than five +combat modifiers are used, the extra effects only alters the chance by 1%. The same is true for +non-combat effects.

Also in question is do the 2 effects cancel out or simply stack on each other? If they cancel, having 6 +com and 1 +non-com would act as 5 +com and grant +25% combat. If they stack (which I think is how mafia currently treats it), then the previous situation would result in 21% +combat.

One other point of clarity, though, are underwater effects at full strength? If you have 6 non-combat effects (for 26%) and then add a Mer-kin sneakmask and Colorfully Concealed on top, is that 36% non-combat? If so, the last line should read:

Underwater only effects are applied at full strength after diminishing returns are applied.

From what was said on the talk page, this seems the case.

And BTW, the spading looks awesome. Kudos

 

[lostcalpolydude]

Underwater effects are applied at full strength. I actually started my spading underwater and was surprised when 5 +noncombat effects plus two underwater-only effects seemed to have no diminishing returns (before game grid awards existed).

I can only assume that effects cancel before diminishing returns are applied, like they were for NC/ML interaction.

 

[Fluxxdog]

OK, so underwater is a sure thing. It's any other combination that's currently unknown. I want to help test this out myself but I can only get up to 4 or 5 effects each myself. However, since the suspected difference is more than 4, the Airship should be able to easily test this, right?
if 21% (stacking), should get 9 "and on..."s
if 25% (canceling), should get 10 or 11, not exactly clear as they use floor and ceiling in the wiki's formula. By the looks of it in the talk page, it should be 10.

 

[slyz]

the Airship should be able to easily test this, right?

You would need to run an awful lot of adventures. it would be better to find a zone with a 25% combat rate or something. I guess you should check Lost's thread about this on the kolspading forums.

 

[Fluxxdog]

Why would you need a lot of adventures? You're already upping non-combats so the choice adventure shouldn't take long to find.

 

[slyz]

If you want to determine what your current modifier is by adventuring in the Airship, you would need to run hundreds (thousands?) of advs to make sure your data is converging towards the expected value. Or maybe I misunderstood and we aren't talking about the same thing?

 

[Bale]

Or maybe I misunderstood and we aren't talking about the same thing?

You misunderstood. Read up on Random Lack of an Encounter. It's a veritable gift to spaders.

The number of times "and on" is printed depends on your noncombat modifier. The formula is: 2 + Ceiling[ Floor(noncombat modifier) / 3 ], minimum 2.

That only tell you to within 3%, but it is still some nice data.

 

[slyz]

Very nice... I guess A Spader is Not Me.