Allegations of misconduct

You make a good point. I believe people are bringing up Wagner to illustrate an extreme, not to imply that they are equivalent.

Personally, I believe that people should not be judged purely on the basis of past mistakes. Those mistakes should not be ignored, obviously, but I feel it is important to take the present into account as well. Jick's behavior was reprehensible, but they've confirmed and acknowledged that. That hardly negates it, but I think they are making better choices now. Wagner can no longer be expected to change the future, so ideal behavior on his part is identical to the worst-possible behavior. Johnson is still alive, on the other hand, so that does not hold true for him.

When pondering whether to continue aiding Asymmetric Games, my advice is to imagine at least one hypothetical scenario, starting from the present onwards, that (either currently or eventually) leads to continued support. Conversely, imagine a scenario where you halt support. Let their actions determine which outcome is actualized. Even a serial killer should have the ability to serve their sentence, demonstrate rehabilitation, and eventually be accepted back into society. No one can be expected to change the past, but they should always have the responsibility to change the future.
 
I did mention Wagner and I appreciate the efforts not to name me by name, even though I am mature enough to not take that as personal. I brought Wagner up as an example where the artist's flaws did not necessarily remove all value from the art. That said, I agree that it was not the best example because Wagner is no longer in a position to profit from continued performances of his work.

I enjoy KoL and I enjoy supporting it via KoLmafia and scripting. I wish I could figure out a way to continue that enjoyment while simultaneously feeling that I am not enabling an abuser. In terms of the actions I can personally take I cannot figure out how to express my disapproval of what Jick and HotStuff did in any way that does not also make Asymmetric the target of my disapproval. Sometimes I am comfortable equating Asymmetric with Jick and HotStuff but sometimes, when I do, I realize that might be wrong. It is pretty clear that I am not going to get the neat, clean, well bounded answer that I desire.
 
I've been occasionally pondering all of this as I've been playing my turns. Veracity's posts have already echoed my thoughts fairly well on this issue, including the shock, the processing, and the reserving of judgement.

Despite being a longtime member of the KoLmafia community (which I view as distinct from the KoL community despite a lot of crossover), this probably affects me somewhat less emotionally than many of you. I don't really pay attention to who TPTB are, I don't know any of their personalities, wouldn't recognize their faces or voices. The KoL names that mean the most to me are those in this forum; people I've collaborated with or discussed scripting with. I tend to prefer solo games (I've never even tried PvP despite strong completionist tendencies) and this forum has been my only social connection re: KoL. I think I made a handful of posts over at the official forum but for whatever reasons didn't return.

So this seems somewhat distant to me, but that's not to say I'm unemotional about it. In fact, I'm angry. Pretty sure we all are. I'm angry that through no fault of almost everyone involved, this game that I have loved for over a decade has been emotionally tainted. I'm angry that I now have to make this stupid, hard choice. I'm angry that evidently someone was abused at the hands of people I've supported financially. I'm angry that if the momentum swings a certain way -- a logical and deserved way -- this could spell the end of one of my favorite hobbies.

This distance and this anger makes me initially want to view this as I'd view something like the CEO of Kraft being accused of human trafficking (not an actual news story, I'm inventing it for analogy). Let's say I really don't want to stop eating their products. I would want, even expect, justice through the proper channels. I would want this CEO to be demoted or fired (company response) and go to jail for a long time (law response), and then I would want the company to issue a statement expressing their regret (company intent), and then I would continue to buy Kraft singles with a clear conscience, since his crime was personal and does not affect the quality of the cheese, such as it is. However, if these steps were bypassed, for instance if the CEO simply got off with a fine and continued to hold his position, and the company did not release a statement explaining why on earth he was not punished, then I could not in good conscience buy Kraft singles anymore, as the company itself (and by extension, me) then appears to be tacitly supporting human trafficking.

In this case, too, justice through the proper channels has not happened, which is what is inspiring the movement to stop support of the company; in short, we're assuming responsibility for meting out punishment because no one else is, and we need there to be punishment so that we can continue to play the game with a clear conscience.

Now, I don't generally agree with this. I think we have civil law for a reason, and putting justice into the hands of a variously-informed mob is unwise. I want to say that the majority of the report about the fellow who almost shares my name was him being a huge asshole, not him committing crimes. I want to say that all of it, even the unforgivable crimes, was personal and not my business, and while I now view the accused as an asshole, it doesn't affect my enjoyment of the company's product since I don't even know any of these people. I want to point out that most of us don't actually check to make sure that every employee of every company we buy things from isn't an asshole. Because it isn't relevant. The product and the creator are separate.

I want to say all that, because I love this game and especially this application that lets me have so much fun playing this game, and I loathe the thought of all of the myriad efforts that have gone into making something so good to be for naught. And because it's the easy answer that lets me keep what I want.

But I can't. I can't completely separate them. I need to see a proper apology from the accused (so far the apology is 1/3 complete), a proper response from the company (also 1/3 complete), and proper consequences via the law for any crimes (too late for this but not too late for restitution), before I can continue to enjoy the product with a clear conscience. I love this game enough I think I would even settle for 2 out of 3. But 0 I don't have enough rationalizations for.

So my conclusion? My heart is struggling to accept the conclusion my mind has reached. At the moment, I still haven't canceled my subscription, and I continue to play my turns as if nothing has happened. But I am painfully, reluctantly reaching for the cancel button and unless the next steps taken (by the accused, or by the law, or by Asymmetric as a company) are in the right direction to clear our consciences, then the company by their tacit endorsement of these actions will not be getting more of my money. Thanks, I hate it.
 
As far as Mahler goes, you have to bear in mind that the world was a very different place in the 19th century. He was forced to convert to Catholicism in order to become the Hofoper director in Vienna, due to an anti-Semitic law on the books.

Why did he conduct Wagner? Conducting was how he made a living; if he wanted to continue doing so, he had to play what people wanted to listen to. And in that time and place, that was contemporary German music, to inspire nationalistic feelings.

(This is to say -- Veracity, while you might draw some parallels between yourself and Mahler, I think it's a fundamentally different dynamic, since for us this is a volunteer effort, and walking away tomorrow wouldn't jeopardize our careers.)
 
I agree. For Mahler, it was his career - although I think we’d agree that now a century later, we remember him for his composition, not his conducting.

For me, KoLmafia - and KoL - is a hobby, not a career.
 
I feel Kevin's replies so far have been much better than Zach, he comes across as genuinely remorseful and working for the future rather than Zach's deflection.
 
People are really good at deciding what they want to do and then rationalizing it. In that spirit, I want to stay involved with KoL. It has been fun, is fun and has been a part of my life that I will miss if it is gone. I am bothered that my continued participation might allow someone accused of abuse (much of which happened a decade ago) to possibly continue to abuse but that is not enough of a reason to stop. I spent most of my professional career supporting the defense community, the intelligence community and law enforcement and if I can make peace with the possibility that (innocent?) people are dead or incarcerated because of my work then I can live with not bringing an alleged abuser to justice.

My contributions to KoLmafia have been trivial or working with someone else's patch. I will continue to do that. There is much evidence that I am either not careful or don't know what I am doing (I would have approved the recent negative HP regeneration, for example, and that would have been wrong) so there is certainly the possibility of a decline in KoLmafia's quality if I am the last dev left standing. But at this point I expect to remain "involved".

IMO. YMMV.
 
Jick on the KoL Forumz: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/showthread.php?p=5053153#post5053153

"A message to the KoL community

The goal of Asymmetric’s work has always been, above all other concerns, to bring people joy. In this context, the pain and confusion that I’ve caused in the community has been incredibly difficult for me to deal with, and I can’t even imagine how hard it must be for you. I’m sorry I’ve been silent on it up to now -- I’ve been afraid, ashamed, and struggling to imagine what I could possibly say that would help anyone.

When I started working on KoL, it was at a very bleak point in my life. I created the initial version as a way of processing grief, and didn’t expect it to amount to anything that anybody else would care about. But when it did, the warm and welcoming community that seemingly instantly materialized around it was like oxygen when I didn’t know I was suffocating. It became my entire life. My job and my social life and my emotional support network were all the same thing -- the same people.

What I didn’t realize was that this also created a situation where I was at the top of the power structure in every aspect of my life. This came about so suddenly, and among so many other fundamental life changes, that it was invisible to me. I didn’t think of myself as being at the top of a hierarchy, but I knew that other people did, and… that’s what a hierarchy is.

Looking back on events with a recognition of that power has been eye-opening. I spent years not realizing how much slack people were cutting me. I made comments and jokes that hurt peoples’ feelings, and they were afraid to call me out. I expressed terrible, immature opinions in public, not considering the weight they carried and the potential for them to justify bad behavior in others. I dated people without considering how privilege factors into consent. And acts that I thought of as generous were, in reality, acts of manipulation and control.

Amid all of this, my marriage was a mess. My understanding of what kind of mess it was has evolved over time. During it, and especially during the divorce, I was certain that I was a victim. Later I came to believe that it had been mutually abusive, but even that was an abdication of responsibility. The truth is that I went into that relationship with every advantage. I had grown up in a stable family. I never wrestled with housing or food insecurity. I wasn’t victimized as a child. In short, I showed up to the relationship with everything except an excuse. When I lashed out, it wasn’t from a position of righteous indignation or self-defense, it was from a position of power and privilege.

The person that I am now is deeply ashamed of the person I was then. I’m sorry to the people that I hurt. I’m sorry to the people who I failed by not living up to the responsibilities of my position. I’m sorry to the people I brushed off when they tried to tell me these things at the time. I’m sorry for the ways in which my actions, and the actions of men like me, have made the games industry and the world worse for other people, especially women.

I have a lot of work and a lot of self-reflection left to do to become a better person than I was back then. I believe that I’ve been on the right track for the last few years, and I hope that reflecting on these experiences can help to make the way forward even more clear. I know some of you will never be able to trust me again. I get it, and I’m deeply sorry that my past behavior has put you in that position.

I remain hopeful, though, because the KoL community is far, far bigger than me. It always has been. I believe that it’s still as warm and welcoming and amazing as it ever was, and I want more than anything for it to be a thing that you can continue to be proud to be a part of. We’ll be donating all of the revenue from this month’s Item-of-the-Month to RAINN, and continuing to donate 10% of KoL’s revenue to charities (at least half of them womens’ charities) moving forward."
 
FWIW, if I imagine that I will play this game in the future, I am considering PURCHASING (not “donating for”) a year’s worth of Mr. A’s this month, knowing that every cent of my money goes to RAINN.

Unless HotStuff lied.
Even though Asymmetric writes it off as a tax deduction.
(You thought we didn’t see that?)
Or donate to RAINN directly and take the deduction myself.

Wish I had reason to trust the motives of the principals.
 
Veracity said:
Even though Asymmetric writes it off as a tax deduction.
(You thought we didn’t see that?)
Click to expand...

Getting money, giving it away, and taking that as a tax deduction is the same as never getting it, right? (I've never dealt with any complicated tax situations.)
 
lostcalpolydude said:
Getting money, giving it away, and taking that as a tax deduction is the same as never getting it, right? (I've never dealt with any complicated tax situations.)
Click to expand...

Maybe, unless there are other taxes involved (is there VAT? Who pays it, and on which transactions?) and unless they hit the limit for deductions (my quick google says this limit es 50% of gross income, so it depends on how much of their income consists of buying/subscripbing for the current IotM; either that money is less than half of their income, or they are not writing off all of it)
 
Essentially.

"Donations" are income. Since they are a for-profit company, that is balanced against expenses and the difference is profit, for which tax is owed. I have no idea how they are structured as a business, but if charitable donations offset income (as they do for non-businesses), it lowers the profit and therefore the tax owed.

So, yeah. In the simplest case, giving away a chunk of income to charity means you don't get to spend it and don't owe taxes on it. Which seems reasonable to me, so my snark was unwarranted. Except for the part about how _I_ could take the deduction, if I wanted to donate to the same charity and forego getting Mr. A.s via "donation".
 
What really... disturbs me? I don't want to say "sickens" but... anyway, it's the fact he never addresses anything to Phoenix. He always generalizes it as something he's part of:

Amid all of this, my marriage was a mess.
Click to expand...
The truth is that I went into that relationship with every advantage.
Click to expand...
In short, I showed up to the relationship with everything except an excuse.
Click to expand...
I’m sorry for the ways in which my actions, and the actions of men like me, have made the games industry and the world worse for other people, especially women.
Click to expand...

That's the closest he ever went to talking about his behavior regarding Phoenix.

The first problem is this: In short, for someone not aware of the situation, there is NO WAY for this person to know even remotely what the allegations against him were; no way to know who has the OTHER VERSION of this two-sided situation, and therefore ask this person what that version is.
He addressed "his behavior" in general while staying as vague as possible on the actual actions he committed.

He's saying he's sorry and everything, and that he's trying to change... bla, bla, bla... but you can see that it's pretty much just a way to "reassure" those who still had faith in him.
He's still distancing himself as much as he can from Phoenix, the one that actually suffered from/through this.

And Phoenix, who is apparently trying to reach out to him personally on the forum, is being censored, which is why she had to release public statements on twitter instead.
 
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