Bug - Fixed Redrum data is incorrect

[Terion]

Looking at my Item Manager - Booze, I noticed that redrum seems to have the wrong info.

Redrum is listed as 2.00 adv/drunk, when it should be 1.83 (like the monkey wrench or rum and cola that are also in my booze list; it's a 5-6 adv, 3 drunk booze.) I did not hav eOde running when I looked at the Item Manager. It's not FoB today - redrum's base adv/drunk on FoB changes to 2.33 (5-9 adv) though I have no idea how/if Mafia handles FoB effects on cranberry-based consumables.

Redrum is also listed as +22.5 mys; the wiki says its mys stat gain range is 16-30, which would be an average of 23, not 22.5 (minor, I know, but since I was posting the adv bit anyway, figured I'd be complete.) I'm a muscle sign in a BHY run, with no shower effect running, so I don't believe there's anything that would effect the myst gain; "modtrace myst" doesn't show anything under experience percent.

PS. Is there a file for all the consumption data, that I can check if I see something I think is wrong? Or an ashq command I could alias to check the base data for an item, so I can confirm that something's incorrect before I post?

 

[Veracity]

Redrum is listed as 2.00 adv/drunk, when it should be 1.83 (like the monkey wrench or rum and cola that are also in my booze list; it's a 5-6 adv, 3 drunk booze.)

When did that change, I wonder? And where did you get that information? The Well-Tempered Mixologist (which used to be our authoritative source, since it was based on real spading, rather than numbers pulled out of the air, like the Wiki) says it is 3-6 adventures, 5-9 on FoB.

It's not FoB today - redrum's base adv/drunk on FoB changes to 2.33 (5-9 adv) though I have no idea how/if Mafia handles FoB effects on cranberry-based consumables.

It knows nothing about that.

Redrum is also listed as +22.5 mys; the wiki says its mys stat gain range is 16-30, which would be an average of 23, not 22.5 (minor, I know, but since I was posting the adv bit anyway, figured I'd be complete.)

If it's in the Wiki, it has to be correct. The Well-Tempered Mixologist says 15-30. So does KoLmafia.

PS. Is there a file for all the consumption data, that I can check if I see something I think is wrong? Or an ashq command I could alias to check the base data for an item, so I can confirm that something's incorrect before I post?

Yes. You can look at fullness.txt, inebriety.txt, or spleenhit.txt, or use the new proxy fields for items I added a couple of days ago.

> ash $item[ redrum ]

Returned: redrum
plural => redsrum
descid => 513927354
image => rocks.gif
levelreq => 1
quality => decent
adventures => 3-9
muscle => 0
mysticality => 15-30
moxie => 0
fullness => 0
inebriety => 3
spleen => 0
notes =>
combat => false
reusable => false
usable => false
multi => false
seller => none
buyer => none

 

[Terion]

When did that change, I wonder? And where did you get that information? The Well-Tempered Mixologist (which used to be our authoritative source, since it was based on real spading, rather than numbers pulled out of the air, like the Wiki) says it is 3-6 adventures, 5-9 on FoB.

Ok. Then I'll point out that an adventure range of 3-6 on a 3-drunk booze would be an average adventure/drunk gain of 1.5 instead of 2. And, yes, my info was from the wiki; I'm doing my part to make sure it has accurate numbers, but I can't test all the booze myself, I'll admit.

And thanks for the info about the files and the proxy fields! Your gift of this program and the support of it is a beacon of enlightenment to us all. (Really; it's amazing how much you do for love of the game instead of a paycheck.)

 

[roippi]

Did nobody read the "adventures => 3-9" that Veracity posted?

Should be 3-6.

 

[Theraze]

No... it's (normal) 3-6 and (FoB) 5-9. Making the full range 3 (low) to 9 (high).

I posted another FReq to detect/change adventure ranges on FoB for the 3 cranberry items that have varying ranges on that holiday... until then, 3-9 IS the adventure range for redrum. Not always, but that is both the low amount and high amount of adventures...

 

[Veracity]

Yes.

And, FWIW, I just corresponded with Gemelli regarding his Well-Tempered sites; since he's now on the dev team, it wasn't clear if he was maintaining still them. Heck, since he's on the dev team, all the info could be Perfectly Accurate - although we know he wouldn't abuse his powers like that.

His response, in summary:

They are out of date, the info in there was all based on real spading and has always been more reliable than stuff that was added to the Wiki up to a year ago or so (when he stopped adding stuff), and he is attempting to get them moved to/maintained by Coldfront (like the Wiki) with instructions on how to DO that spading, so they will continue to be reliable - but obviously once they are out of his hands, he can't control that. For all we know, they will end up being populated with data pulled right from the Wiki. :-/

 

[roippi]

No... it's (normal) 3-6 and (FoB) 5-9. Making the full range 3 (low) to 9 (high).

I posted another FReq to detect/change adventure ranges on FoB for the 3 cranberry items that have varying ranges on that holiday... until then, 3-9 IS the adventure range for redrum. Not always, but that is both the low amount and high amount of adventures...

That makes no sense. Cranberries have an adv range of 1 in fullness.txt, and that makes complete sense. If everything were implemented in the way you were suggesting, their range would be 1-4, which is misleading 98% of the time.

The range specified in fullness.txt should be the normal range, and special ranges should be Somewhere Else. Conflating the two serves no purpose but to confuse people.

Consider a hypothetical holiday where beer nuts give 10 adventures. Does listing their adv range as 1-10 help anyone? No.

 

[Veracity]

I see that Theraze snuck in a post between yours and mine; my "Yes" was actually directed to your "Should be 3-6" comment.
Theraze wrote a feature request for us to adjust cranberry concoctions on the FoB.
I think we should have the correct "base" range and adjust when appropriate.

 

[Theraze]

Agreed if we can do that. Want me to make a FReq for accurate consumption tracking on White Citadel burgers? Seems to be a similar thing to the inaccuracy of cranberry items... 2-8 always listed though it's not there until after 60 burgers, and resets during Bad Moon ascensions...

 

[Veracity]

It carries over across non Bad Moon ascensions? We need two properties then: one for current Bad Moon run, one for any other time. Make a Feature Request.

Not to say it will get implemented soon.

 

[Terion]

Well, had my main and multi each drink 6 redrums today (with Ode, so the results are all +3 adv from the Ode).

Adventure/Myst gains were: 9/30, 8/24, 8/21, 8/16, 8/27, 8/20, 8/17, 8/30, 9/23, 9/27, 8/16, 9/18

Only 12 samples, granted, but I think that looks more like a 5-6 adventure range than 3-6. (Of course, just 12 stat results ranging from 16-30 doesn't prove anything by themselves.)

Was it within the last year that Jick refactored the consumables, and cleaned up the ranges on a lot of items? Mixologist and epicurean could be off on a few items, then.

 

[Theraze]

Yeah... the info got tightened last... November, maybe? But it's been within the last year.

Most of those were 1-3 getting set to 2 and items like that though, not getting set from 3-6 to 5-6 and straight improved by 2. Not to say it didn't happen, but we have a case where we don't have full/exhaustive data.

 

[Terion]

And for curiosity, I dug back into the wiki history for redrum. Looks like the wiki info got changed here in June 2006, when Gaurinn said he imbibed 100 of them (though he does note the change to the FoB info was an assumption that FoB wouldn't have lower limites than the normal range.) I didn't see any change to that info in any later revivions, so it looks like Gaurinn was the original source of that info.

 

[Theraze]

Hmm... 5 year old wiki data seems less reliable than information spaded by someone reliable who stopped updating about a year ago... But yes, 3-6 seems like it should be the standard setting, and then this Bug can be closed and the FReq remain waiting for the 5-9 FoB setting.

 

[lostcalpolydude]

Well, had my main and multi each drink 6 redrums today (with Ode, so the results are all +3 adv from the Ode).

Adventure/Myst gains were: 9/30, 8/24, 8/21, 8/16, 8/27, 8/20, 8/17, 8/30, 9/23, 9/27, 8/16, 9/18

If the adventure range was 3-6 base, uniformly spread, then the chance of that result would be 1 in 4096, or about 0.02%. That looks like 5-6 base.

Just because Gemelli has been updating stuff until a year ago doesn't mean that every item was regularly checked there.

 

[xKiv]

uniformly spread

Isn't the distribution supposed to be triangular?

 

[Winterbay]

Isn't it rather hard to have a triangular distribution with only 2 values as many seem to have now?

 

[xKiv]

I mean, in general (1dX + 1dY, which would for two values be 1dX + 1d1). Maybe that was just some special cases.

 

[Veracity]

Revision 9674