Fullness check?
- Thread starter aesir
- Start date
Yeah if its ever going to happen I assume it will have to be user made (Wont ever be inbuilt into mafia). It is possible to make a fullness counter but it would only work for someone that only used scripts and never ate anything manually.
Why I say it will "never" be inbuilt is that I assume the dev team wants to keep mafia users "equal" in terms of ingame information and making a fullness counter "gives mafia users an advantage". Once you also put into consideration that people can log in without mafia and eat, there is no "sure" way to check your current fullness and so I would also expect the dev team to keep mafia's functions "Accurate or none at all". Then again with me saying "expect" all these times I might be getting on their nerves >>...
If you do decide to script this yourself. Make yourself familiar with ASH Map's. (And processing data from some source such as the wiki.) Or just grab my already made ash map in Here although its a bit out of date, it saves alot of manual data input. Theres no functions to use it so its simply a raw data map but we cant have everything pre-made for us eh =) (Or we can if someone else feels like writing the function for you)
Why I say it will "never" be inbuilt is that I assume the dev team wants to keep mafia users "equal" in terms of ingame information and making a fullness counter "gives mafia users an advantage". Once you also put into consideration that people can log in without mafia and eat, there is no "sure" way to check your current fullness and so I would also expect the dev team to keep mafia's functions "Accurate or none at all". Then again with me saying "expect" all these times I might be getting on their nerves >>...
If you do decide to script this yourself. Make yourself familiar with ASH Map's. (And processing data from some source such as the wiki.) Or just grab my already made ash map in Here although its a bit out of date, it saves alot of manual data input. Theres no functions to use it so its simply a raw data map but we cant have everything pre-made for us eh =) (Or we can if someone else feels like writing the function for you)
[quote author=Nightmist link=topic=322.msg1734#msg1734 date=1154320038]I assume the dev team wants to keep mafia users "equal" in terms of ingame information and making a fullness counter "gives mafia users an advantage".[/quote]
I'm pretty sure that this is not a "goal" for KoLmafia. I'd like a "fullness" counter myself. I have no problem with the tool giving me an "advantage"; for example, the Location data gives me an "advantage" over players who don't have that data at their fingertips. But...
You're going to have to make your own "fullness" map. And keep it up to date as new food items are added. And make sure you don't eat outside of the script that keeps track of the counter.
I'm pretty sure that this is not a "goal" for KoLmafia. I'd like a "fullness" counter myself. I have no problem with the tool giving me an "advantage"; for example, the Location data gives me an "advantage" over players who don't have that data at their fingertips. But...
...this sums up the problem. KoL doesn't tell you how full you are. Even if KoLmafia had a built-in "fullness" map telling you what every kind of food does to you and kept track of where you were in today's eating, it still wouldn't know exactly how full you were because it doesn't know what you've been eating while it wasn't watching.
You're going to have to make your own "fullness" map. And keep it up to date as new food items are added. And make sure you don't eat outside of the script that keeps track of the counter.
I'm not quite impressed with that argument. KoLmafia keeps track of how much meat you make in a session and how many stat points you have gained based on the activity that it observes in the course of your session. I don't see any particular reason why it couldn't track fullness and spleeniness in the same spirit. Even if the tally was understood to be undependable if you play in a particularly eXtreme manner, it would be still be useful to the majority of players who don't do stuff outside of KoLmafia.
Besides, an item map can't cover fullness since the fixed menu items from the restaurant aren't items. So the whole thing would have to be kludgy and wide-ranging from the start, and really quite a bit simpler for the internal code to handle. The only question would be how to present the data: someone in the session details like the meat totals that can be wiped out with a "Clear All" command, something like that except specifically immune to clearing, or a magic property variable that knows enough to reset itself during the breakfast script.
Besides, an item map can't cover fullness since the fixed menu items from the restaurant aren't items. So the whole thing would have to be kludgy and wide-ranging from the start, and really quite a bit simpler for the internal code to handle. The only question would be how to present the data: someone in the session details like the meat totals that can be wiped out with a "Clear All" command, something like that except specifically immune to clearing, or a magic property variable that knows enough to reset itself during the breakfast script.
efilnikufecin
Member
[quote author=Tirian link=topic=322.msg1736#msg1736 date=1154330820]
I'm not quite impressed with that argument. KoLmafia keeps track of how much meat you make in a session and how many stat points you have gained based on the activity that it observes in the course of your session. I don't see any particular reason why it couldn't track fullness and spleeniness in the same spirit. Even if the tally was understood to be undependable if you play in a particularly eXtreme manner, it would be still be useful to the majority of players who don't do stuff outside of KoLmafia.
Besides, an item map can't cover fullness since the fixed menu items from the restaurant aren't items. So the whole thing would have to be kludgy and wide-ranging from the start, and really quite a bit simpler for the internal code to handle. The only question would be how to present the data: someone in the session details like the meat totals that can be wiped out with a "Clear All" command, something like that except specifically immune to clearing, or a magic property variable that knows enough to reset itself during the breakfast script.
[/quote]
can we say mass bug reports? and then some more bug reports? And heck even some more! I think I agree with the decision not to implement a fullness counter even though I would love for the info to be readily available.
The strongest possible reason I can give is that I personally wouldn't wish all those bug reports about less than accurate data on anybody.
I'm not quite impressed with that argument. KoLmafia keeps track of how much meat you make in a session and how many stat points you have gained based on the activity that it observes in the course of your session. I don't see any particular reason why it couldn't track fullness and spleeniness in the same spirit. Even if the tally was understood to be undependable if you play in a particularly eXtreme manner, it would be still be useful to the majority of players who don't do stuff outside of KoLmafia.
Besides, an item map can't cover fullness since the fixed menu items from the restaurant aren't items. So the whole thing would have to be kludgy and wide-ranging from the start, and really quite a bit simpler for the internal code to handle. The only question would be how to present the data: someone in the session details like the meat totals that can be wiped out with a "Clear All" command, something like that except specifically immune to clearing, or a magic property variable that knows enough to reset itself during the breakfast script.
[/quote]
can we say mass bug reports? and then some more bug reports? And heck even some more! I think I agree with the decision not to implement a fullness counter even though I would love for the info to be readily available.The strongest possible reason I can give is that I personally wouldn't wish all those bug reports about less than accurate data on anybody.
macman104
Member
[quote author=Tirian link=topic=322.msg1736#msg1736 date=1154330820]I'm not quite impressed with that argument. KoLmafia keeps track of how much meat you make in a session and how many stat points you have gained based on the activity that it observes in the course of your session. I don't see any particular reason why it couldn't track fullness and spleeniness in the same spirit. Even if the tally was understood to be undependable if you play in a particularly eXtreme manner, it would be still be useful to the majority of players who don't do stuff outside of KoLmafia.[/quote]Except KoL already reports all of those things, and mafia just grabs them, what you're asking would be for an internal database of the items to be made, and kept up to date for all new foods that are added and/or tweaked. That's the major difference between meat/substats/drunkedness and fullness/spleeness. The first group requires little extra info, because KoL presents the information to mafia, the second group requires tons of extra internal information in order to function properly.
Heh yes even with it being a "this session" thing I suspect there would be many many "ZOMG mafia gave me fake fullness!" reports.
Edit: PS if you want to make a map that includes the fixed menu items you can try what I did and use a map with 2 key value things... And make all items a [$item[item], 0] and then the fixed menu items [$item[none], *SomeINTValue*], sure its pretty messy but it works >>.
Edit: PS if you want to make a map that includes the fixed menu items you can try what I did and use a map with 2 key value things... And make all items a [$item[item], 0] and then the fixed menu items [$item[none], *SomeINTValue*], sure its pretty messy but it works >>.
I'm really not certain why this would cause any amount of confusion among the user base. I'm only talking about a piece of data that reports how much food you've eaten, certainly not something that would stop you from trying to eat. Since KoLmafia isn't ever going to tell us if it's the Feast of Boris, there couldn't be any attempt to determine what the fullness limit is.
But whatever.
But whatever.
holatuwol
Developer
Tirian said:
Even if I ignore the data entry cost, there simply isn't a compelling reason to implement a fullness or spleen counter. To paraphrase, while you don't see any particular reason why it couldn't, I don't see any particular reason why it should.
The majority of players I know have already grown accustomed to doing all their food consumption at once or in very predictable patterns. As such, I don't believe there's any benefit to investing the time to implement a general-purpose internal fullness counter as very few people would really use it because most KoL players have already gotten into habits which allow them to not have to worry about the existence of these counters, and, from almost any known perspective, these habits are optimal.
Because spleen use tends to be more distributed, a spleen counter theoretically could be useful (and substantially easier to implement than a fullness counter). In practice, however, there is no benefit to knowing it's actual value, as the only thing you need to know is whether or not your spleen limit has been exceeded. However, in this case, there is also no harm in acquiring more spleen items than you need, given how inexpensive they are, so nobody is hurt by the overpurchase (or even overuse) of spleen items. So, why should KoLmafia have one?
holatuwol
Developer
Well, just because I don't currently see any use for it doesn't mean there's no reason to present a good reason why it would be useful if you truly feel it is. For one, Veracity and I disagree on a great many things, and Veracity might be convinced to add it even if I don't feel it's useful. For two, I also tend to be fairly flexible on most things that don't automate holidays, automate new content, or turn KoLmafia into an automated ascension tool. You just need a solid argument.
I'm ambivalent. I can and do live without these features. On the other hand, I'd make use of them if they existed.
I personally do eat all my fullness in one sitting, as you suggest most players do. There are two caveats about this, though, that I'd love the opportunity to verify at the end of an adventuring day. The first is that I actually did remember to eat -- in softcore I can pretty much look at my turn count and see that I'm 90 adventures further from clearing ronin than I'd expect to be, but in hardcore there is no similar clear marker and there is also no regular feeding time. The other thing that I'd want to verify is that I didn't accidentally eat to 15 fullness when I had Stomach of Steel.
As far as a spleen counter goes, I can see the possibility that I'd want to save a few spooky wads for when I was adventuring in the HitS, which means that I'd want to be sure that when I was ready to use them I hadn't blown my spleen on medicinal herbs. A spleen counter would give me the capability to see how far I had gotten toward that limit (and, of course, I couldn't write my own one of those since I can't catch the decisions that the auto-healer makes once I set it on its path).
I personally do eat all my fullness in one sitting, as you suggest most players do. There are two caveats about this, though, that I'd love the opportunity to verify at the end of an adventuring day. The first is that I actually did remember to eat -- in softcore I can pretty much look at my turn count and see that I'm 90 adventures further from clearing ronin than I'd expect to be, but in hardcore there is no similar clear marker and there is also no regular feeding time. The other thing that I'd want to verify is that I didn't accidentally eat to 15 fullness when I had Stomach of Steel.
As far as a spleen counter goes, I can see the possibility that I'd want to save a few spooky wads for when I was adventuring in the HitS, which means that I'd want to be sure that when I was ready to use them I hadn't blown my spleen on medicinal herbs. A spleen counter would give me the capability to see how far I had gotten toward that limit (and, of course, I couldn't write my own one of those since I can't catch the decisions that the auto-healer makes once I set it on its path).