Feature - Implemented Don't train familiars in the arena for tower weight

[lostcalpolydude]

I hear people mention in chat often enough that they had the ability to get their familiar to 20 pounds for the tower, but mafia overlooked something (pool buff, turning a sugar sheet into a shield, equipping a helicopter, probably other things I can't think of), and instead went to the arena for familiar weight. I think it would be good to remove that feature and let people find 20 pounds on their own if mafia can't handle it without spending turns. The arena trainer will still be there for people that decide to run it manually. A patch is attached.

 

[Theraze]

Maybe allowing for skipping the training through an additional choice similar to lucky/unlucky entryway, but I like this default behaviour. It makes it simple for automation, and if you're playing optimally, you aren't automating anyways...

 

[lostcalpolydude]

Based on /clan (a place with a high concentration of speed runners), the number of people that expect this to not cause any issues during their speed runs is fairly high. If something normally doesn't take turns, they begin to trust it that much.

 

[Raijinili]

I also tend to expect Mafia to only take turns when it's obvious or explicit. For example, I'd like it to warn me when cooking takes a turn, because I don't want to "use tomato power;use serum of sarcasm; use philter of phorce" and end up with only 3 turns left of Tomato Power. :/

 

[lostcalpolydude]

I also tend to expect Mafia to only take turns when it's obvious or explicit. For example, I'd like it to warn me when cooking takes a turn, because I don't want to "use tomato power;use serum of sarcasm; use philter of phorce" and end up with only 3 turns left of Tomato Power. :/

Also wok cooking. But that's a different feature request that you could make, if you want.

 

[Theraze]

My opinion is that it should be toggled... whether as a (probably hidden) preference, or as a slightly different command like "entryway lucky", maybe "tower train"... Both ways, autotrain and selftrain, have their purpose...

Or just use Tower (To Shadow) if you don't want it to autotrain...

 

[illarion]

Really like this change. A hidden preference seems like a way to implement it that should offend no-one. Anyone who likes the status quo can have it, while those in the know can turn it off if desired.

 

[Veracity]

We should probably just remove auto-training. We should also soup up the part where it tries to buff to use the maximizer, or something, so as to be less likely to "overlook" things. Right now, it calls the Familiar Trainer to use its own hard-coded list of ways to buff familiars - which certainly will not include limited resources like the pool table, since the Familiar Trainer is expecting to consume turns. Passing the Giant Familiars does not consume turns, and, assuming you don't have familiars with different weights, buffing to pass the first one will suffice yo get you past the second one, too.

 

[Bale]

We should probably just remove auto-training.

This!

I got into trouble in a run where I didn't currently have a sugar shield and I also hadn't opened the Knob dispensary as I usually do. Consequently I suddenly found it training my familiars without warning! OMG! I would have chosen to make a sugar shield if I had been warned. Well, I try not to automate the end of the tower just in case I run into a case like that.

Please either remove the auto-training or give a warning to let the user abort before that happens.

 

[Veracity]

Revision 10292 will try to buff the familiar to 20 lbs., exactly as before, but will abort with an error if that fails, rather than training the familiar.

 

[Fluxxdog]

I'm not sure if this is intended or not but I had this for my NS familiars today:

Your shadow has been defeated.
Putting Flash the Autonomous Disco Ball back into terrarium...
Taking McKenzie the Levitating Potato out of terrarium...
little box of fireworks is better than (none). Switching items...
Putting on little box of fireworks...
Equipment changed.
Facing giant familiar...
You lose 50 hit points
Putting McKenzie the Levitating Potato back into terrarium...
Taking Bla the Mosquito out of terrarium...
little box of fireworks is better than (none). Switching items...
Stealing little box of fireworks from McKenzie the Levitating Potato...
Putting on little box of fireworks...
Equipment changed.
Putting on sugar shield...
Equipment changed.
Putting on tiny plastic leprechaun...
Equipment changed.
Putting on tiny plastic levitating potato...
Equipment changed.
Putting on tiny plastic mosquito...
Equipment changed.
Using 1 green candy heart...
You acquire an effect: Heart of Green (duration: 10 Adventures)
Finished using 1 green candy heart.
Facing giant familiar...
Putting Bla the Mosquito back into terrarium...
Taking McKenzie the Levitating Potato out of terrarium...
little box of fireworks is better than (none). Switching items...
Putting on little box of fireworks...
Equipment changed.
Facing giant familiar...
You lose 50 hit points
Putting on sugar shield...
Equipment changed.
Taking off tiny plastic levitating potato...
Equipment changed.
Putting on tiny plastic levitating potato...
Equipment changed.
Taking off tiny plastic mosquito...
Equipment changed.
Putting on tiny plastic mosquito...
Equipment changed.
Putting on tiny plastic leprechaun...
Equipment changed.
Facing giant familiar...
Putting McKenzie the Levitating Potato back into terrarium...
Taking Flash the Autonomous Disco Ball out of terrarium...
Her Naughtiness awaits.
Maximizing...
2688 combinations checked, best score 27.0
Maximizing...
SLOT 0
[nurse's hat (514), bounty-hunting helmet (536,899,848)]
SLOT 1
[halibut (257)]
SLOT 2
[stress ball (257), Medallion of the Ventrilo Prince (536,871,169)]
SLOT 3
[]
SLOT 4
[sea salt scrubs (257), flaming pink shirt (536,871,169)]
SLOT 5
[Brimstone Boxers (536,871,169)]
SLOT 6
[furry halo (∞), Pokëmann figurine: Bloodkip (257), tiny plastic levitating potato (536,871,169), tiny plastic sweet nutcracker (257), tiny plastic leprechaun (536,871,169), tiny plastic mosquito (536,871,169)]
SLOT 7
[teflon spatula (257)]
SLOT 8
[magic whistle (514), bottle-rocket crossbow (536,871,169)]
SLOT 9
[sugar shield (61,969), stick-on mini solar panels (536,871,169)]
SLOT 10
[]
SLOT 11
[wristwatch of the white knight (257)]
SLOT 12
[magic whistle (514), bottle-rocket crossbow (536,871,169)]
2688 combinations checked, best score 27.0

The maximizer string was "familiar weight, dump". I thought it very odd that it had to use a green candy heart when I had enough gear to get +19 weight by myself. It's also hitting the server quite a bit more unequipped and re-equipping the same items. I kinda doubted it was intended behavior. Should I file a separate bug report or should this be here for tuning?

 

[Theraze]

I believe the FEATURE of using the maximizer to raise buffed familiar weight automatically instead of a hardcoded list would be a new thread, yes...

 

[Fluxxdog]

I have a sugar shield and 3 accessories that raise the weight to 19 (and Empathy, forgot about that, so 24) that raise the weight appropriately without using consumables. The included script didn't use them. I wasn't talking about using the maximizer, I was talking about the quest solver (is that the right term?) not using them as expected. I used the maximizer dump to show what I had available for familiar weight.

 

[holatuwol]

I suspect the built-in familiar trainer aims for exactly 20 weight (since that's how familiar training works -- the amount of exp you can get is sensitive to your weight) and doesn't checkpoint (I think?) which might explain all the requests.

As I'm not familiar at all with maximizer, I don't know how you would use maximizer instead to get familiar weight up to at least a certain value.

 

[Theraze]

The built in buffing system only uses specific items and skills, which should include Empathy (if you have a turtle totem); it won't equip anything. If you want it to change its behaviour to use the modifier maximizer to employ equipment as well as using items and skills, that would be a new feature...

Regarding using the maximizer, the way that would probably happen would be a checkpoint happening for equipment, maximizing for familiar weight, checking if we have enough, if we need more trying out the item/skill list, running the adventures, and restoring the checkpoint. Speculative maximizer executions should allow for numeric_modifier checks to be done so you could see if it will be enough to reach the 20 weight, but...

New feature, it's not a bug.

 

[Veracity]

The maximizer string was "familiar weight, dump". I thought it very odd that it had to use a green candy heart when I had enough gear to get +19 weight by myself. It's also hitting the server quite a bit more unequipped and re-equipping the same items. I kinda doubted it was intended behavior. Should I file a separate bug report or should this be here for tuning?

Considering that this has nothing whatsoever to do with the original bug report - which requested that when using the built-in tower quest script, we do not consider actually training the familiars; if we can buff them using available items and skills and effects to be 20 lb., we do that, and if we can't, we simply abort and let the player do what they want.

And, as I said myself, earlier in this thread:

We should also soup up the part where it tries to buff to use the maximizer, or something, so as to be less likely to "overlook" things. Right now, it calls the Familiar Trainer to use its own hard-coded list of ways to buff familiars - which certainly will not include limited resources like the pool table, since the Familiar Trainer is expecting to consume turns. Passing the Giant Familiars does not consume turns, and, assuming you don't have familiars with different weights, buffing to pass the first one will suffice to get you past the second one, too.

Improving the Familiar Trainer to use the maximizer rather than having its own list of familiar weight equipment and effects is definitely a Feature Request. I guarantee that tacking on additional requests or suggestions to a Feature Request that fully implements the original request because you think we are interested in "tuning" the implementation is almost never appreciated.

This Request is Implemented. I intend to do nothing more to address this Feature Request. Making the Familiar Trainer use the Maximizer is a distinct (not yet written) Feature Request.

I believe the FEATURE of using the maximizer to raise buffed familiar weight automatically instead of a hardcoded list would be a new thread, yes...

Bingo.

 

[Fluxxdog]

I believe the FEATURE of using the maximizer to raise buffed familiar weight automatically instead of a hardcoded list would be a new thread, yes...

Bingo.

Hardcoded, I overlooked that the first time. OK, FReq it is. I remembered when it was changed I thought was supposed to be more flexible (which it isn't) which is why I thought it was a bug. Thanks all ^^