Feature - Rejected Relay Browser displays modifers

eggman

New member


I added a modifier decorator into the CharPaneDecorator for the relay browser. This also allows those attributes to be clickable links that maximize (or in the case of combat minimize) the selected modifier. My only issue with the code I wrote is that the [refesh] link should be below the modifier display.
 

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lostcalpolydude

Developer
Staff member
Some people will think that's too many things to have there (for example, my +init is usually irrelevant to me). Other people will think it isn't enough. There's already a relay override to display stuff like this. There's also the issue of where it should go; putting it at the bottom means that it often wouldn't be visible for me (if I wasn't using that relay override); putting it higher up means that some other important thing would be less visible.
 

eggman

New member
Some people will think that's too many things to have there (for example, my +init is usually irrelevant to me). Other people will think it isn't enough. There's already a relay override to display stuff like this. There's also the issue of where it should go; putting it at the bottom means that it often wouldn't be visible for me (if I wasn't using that relay override); putting it higher up means that some other important thing would be less visible.

Because we can't please everyone, lets please no one. I want to try to move to using a webUI instead of the standard GUI it would allow mafia to be run on more devices and thus help more people.
 

Bale

Minion
I want to try to move to using a webUI instead of the standard GUI it would allow mafia to be run on more devices and thus help more people.

A point which is at least worth considering. I like a webUI as the future for KoLmafia, but we are a long way from that since it would be a huge project.


If this is useful information, I'm half-tempted to see how hard it would be to merge ChIT into KoLmafia's core decorations, because it includes this among several other things and presents them in a cleaner way than the default interface.

If "half-tempted" is serious, as opposed to rhetorical, then I would find that very interesting. Though I think it should not be enabled by default. Perhaps a preference called "use WebUI" and such relay optimizations as ChIT would be a good beginning for the totality of what the setting would enable.
 

lostcalpolydude

Developer
Staff member
Because we can't please everyone, lets please no one. I want to try to move to using a webUI instead of the standard GUI it would allow mafia to be run on more devices and thus help more people.

An initial design philosophy that holatuwol started with is that you start by saying "No" to features and only change that to "Yes" if they really make sense.

Personally, if I'm on a mobile device with a smaller screen, that stuff is going to be clutter that I really don't want in the way.
 

roippi

Developer
An initial design philosophy that holatuwol started with is that you start by saying "No" to features and only change that to "Yes" if they really make sense.

Indeed.

I have to say "no" as well. Relay overrides are there for a reason; the default interface should be minimalist and intuitive. What happens when joe schmo clicks on "Exp" because exp is cool, doesn't see anything happen, and then gets beaten up next turn because mafia mucked up his gear?
 

eggman

New member
So then why is it in the main GUI? That's really the default interface and its not minimalist or intuitive. Another option is to remove the links to the maximizer so that the chance of PEBKAC errors wouldn't happen.
 
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roippi

Developer
Are you trying to irritate everyone with your attitude? Or is that just your default mode.

Changing things in the relay browser is injecting content into a place where content is already displayed natively by the game. That is wholly different from a standalone GUI, they are not worth comparing.
 

slyz

Developer
Because we can't please everyone, lets please no one.
Correction:
Because we can't please everyone, let's give them the possibility of using their own display changing scripts.

I use Lost's charpane.ash override, which does more or less what you presented. I wouldn't want it to be native in Mafia, though.
 

holatuwol

Developer
Because we can't please everyone, lets please no one.
Well, relay browser changes have gone the route of "let's make everything a preference".

Why is this? Not only are relay browser changes considered "invasive", people are used to the idea of using Greasemonkey in conjunction with KoLmafia (so Greasemonkey does cool things with some pages, KoLmafia does stuff everywhere else) and so will disable every cool customization we put in the charpane if it breaks one of their Greasemonkey scripts. No way to turn it off? There will be a feature request to ask us to let them turn it off pretty quickly, so think ahead.

With that being said, I don't like adding a feature for the sake of having more features; I'd like to know why it is that we put that feature in there in the first place. Sure, the native UI has it because someone took the time to leverage that screen real estate (which was really just empty space due to the size of the panels to the right of it) to make maximizer more intuitive to use. But, is it necessary in the relay browser which doesn't naturally integrate with maximizer, and if so, why? What about it is useful?

By opening up that discussion, it also opens up the discussion for an alternative way to implement it (like ChIT, for example), and maybe it'll make a lot of things easier down the line if we refactor first in preparation for several changes instead of implement each change, one-by-one, head on.

I want to try to move to using a webUI instead of the standard GUI it would allow mafia to be run on more devices and thus help more people.
I like the idea of this, but it doesn't mean we'll accept every single change you want to implement as-is to make it possible. There will be some code massaging, there will be some discussion. Does it slow things down a lot? Of course, but as noted before, a few changes here or there aren't going to cut it. If we can do some refactoring instead of new feature implementation to achieve it, it would not only ease your attempt, but it might make things more interesting for everyone else as code simplification means that more people can get involved.

If "half-tempted" is serious, as opposed to rhetorical, then I would find that very interesting. Though I think it should not be enabled by default. Perhaps a preference called "use WebUI" and such relay optimizations as ChIT would be a good beginning for the totality of what the setting would enable.
Depending on how cool ChIT actually is, I would make it the default and make people opt out of it, because I like making people blink twice and go, "Holy crap, who in the world comes up with these cool things that the KoLmafia team keeps adding?" I'll have to play around with it and look through what it does before making that decision, though.
 

Bale

Minion
Depending on how cool ChIT actually is, I would make it the default and make people opt out of it, because I like making people blink twice and go, "Holy crap, who in the world comes up with these cool things that the KoLmafia team keeps adding?" I'll have to play around with it and look through what it does before making that decision, though.

ChIT is just that cool, so I guess people will have to opt out.
 
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