Bug - Fixed Skull of Bonerdagon crafted into Badass Belt when ascending

Saklad5

Member
Despite having the autoCraft property set to false, KoLmafia always turns skulls of the Bonerdagon into Badass Belts when you ascend. I’m not really sure why you’d ever want that, as the components are not quest items, the Badass Belt isn’t particularly popular as a softcore pull, and the skull is actually a piece of equipment in its own right.

Skimming through the code, I can’t establish what is causing this behavior. Auto-crafting in general is a bit of a mess, in my opinion. It’s really unintuitive to have hard-coded and undocumented behavior like that, and I don’t think anyone really gets much out of it.
 

Saklad5

Member
I just realized that the skull used to be a quest item. I guess that explains why this was implemented in the first place.
 

Veracity

Developer
Staff member
So in other words, KoL changed and you were the first to notice this.
I notice that you can untinker a badass belt, so it's not as if this is much of an inconvenience....

You don't hink anybody gets much out of autocrafting? Aren't you presumptuous!
I quite like clicking on the small pyramid and having KoLmafia automatically make the Staff of Ed for me first.
 

Saklad5

Member
So in other words, KoL changed and you were the first to notice this.
I notice that you can untinker a badass belt, so it's not as if this is much of an inconvenience....

You don't hink anybody gets much out of autocrafting? Aren't you presumptuous!
I quite like clicking on the small pyramid and having KoLmafia automatically make the Staff of Ed for me first.
Actually, that bit is rather annoying when you are trying to get all the Discoveries. At any rate, it would be better if they were documented like auto-stops, and I think we can all agree it shouldn’t auto-craft things that aren’t actually compulsory. Not without a way to enable and disable specific recipes, at least.

Opinions aside, it definitely shouldn’t be auto-crafting things when the “autoCraft” property is false.
 
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Veracity

Developer
Staff member
It's a shame that it "annoys" you. Good thing that you know exactly what to do to not be "annoyed".
Which is to say, run without autoCrafting - which you (and by extension everybody) - "don't get much out of".
 

Saklad5

Member
It's a shame that it "annoys" you. Good thing that you know exactly what to do to not be "annoyed".
Which is to say, run without autoCrafting - which you (and by extension everybody) - "don't get much out of".
I never said that. Also, and this is the entire point, ​it is being auto-crafted regardless of the setting.

And to be clear, I meant that I doubt most users are consciously aware that KoLmafia auto-crafts things, in much the same way many people get by without knowing about auto-stops.
 

Veracity

Developer
Staff member
Auto-crafting in general is a bit of a mess, in my opinion. It’s really unintuitive to have hard-coded and undocumented behavior like that, and I don’t think anyone really gets much out of it.
Which is to say, run without autoCrafting - which you (and by extension everybody) - "don't get much out of".
I never said that.
You literally said that. That is why I used quotation marks.

Also, and this is the entire point, ​it is being auto-crafted regardless of the setting
And that is a fair point. It did that back when the ingredients were quest items at the moment you were about to ascend and thereby automatically lose all your quest items. There is no reason for that code to exist any more now that KoL has changed and made it irrelevant.
 

Saklad5

Member
I didn’t equate myself and “everybody”, though I did say “anybody”. That was hyperbolical, and not intended to be interpreted literally. I’m sorry if I gave an impression to the contrary.

By unintuitive and a bit of a mess, I mean that it is not very orthogonal. Contrast it with breakable handling, where every item has an implicit and predictable property and five ways to respond to being broken. Sure, the documentation is mostly limited to source code comments, but it is in one place and interpreted consistently. This is not relevant to the bug, ultimately, so I shouldn’t have said it. I’d edit the original post, but that would remove the context for your replies.
 
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Malibu Stacey

Active member
It's a shame that it "annoys" you. Good thing that you know exactly what to do to not be "annoyed".
Which is to say, run without autoCrafting - which you (and by extension everybody) - "don't get much out of".

The very first sentence of Saklad5's first post in this thread was

Despite having the autoCraft property set to false, KoLmafia always turns skulls of the Bonerdagon into Badass Belts when you ascend.

See the part I bolded? Maybe read things first in future?
 

lostcalpolydude

Developer
Staff member
If I have somehow offended you, please elaborate how so I may avoid doing so in the future.

Auto-crafting in general is a bit of a mess, in my opinion. It’s really unintuitive to have hard-coded and undocumented behavior like that, and I don’t think anyone really gets much out of it.

Stuff like that, maybe? It isn't anything specific really. More like it seems like you assume you are the smartest one here, maybe.
 

Saklad5

Member
Stuff like that, maybe? It isn't anything specific really. More like it seems like you assume you are the smartest one here, maybe.

I never intended to give that impression. I am fully aware that most of the contributors are smarter than me, at least in the context of KoLmafia and its code. I’m trying to learn from everyone, not turn them away.
 

fronobulax

Developer
Staff member
If I have somehow offended you, please elaborate how so I may avoid doing so in the future.

You project an attitude that you know what you are talking and by extension are smarter than everyone else. You fail to make a distinction between two things that are different and between one thing that is better than another. You often make assertions about how you personally think things should work without regard to why they work differently. You often make assertions - this is wrong - under circumstances where asking "is this wrong?" would get a whole different response. Your online persona often has features in common with someone with an awful lot of theoretical knowledge but no understanding of applications. You have have used the word "annoying" in connection with software that maintained as a labor of love and expressed a sense that you are entitled to have things fixed. You have bumped threads and whined because no one cared enough about your request to respond.

OK. I have blown my steam.

Backing off, I understand how online personas can project an unintended attitude (as indeed I may later claim this post of mine does). So I will try some hopefully specifics.

If English is not your first language, please tell us. What comes across as attitude may also be the result of a native German speaker (for example) writing in English.

Spend some time asking questions and less time making assertions. Consider withholding your solution from your initial post about something.

Make sure you write in a way that indicates you understand you are asking for something and not in a way that suggests you are entitled to it.
 

Darzil

Developer
And sent personal mails chasing your pet projects. I’m probably going to ignore you soon, as the alternative is leaving this community, as I now come to see demands, not requests. Usually ones that demand much more time than they will ever save, and often ones telling me that work I've previously done for this community is rubbish or ill thought out.
 
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zarqon

Well-known member
I don't have a horse in this race -- at least not an entire horse -- but in the interest of the community I believe I have a few helpful things to say:

1) Saklad5, I appreciate your enthusiasm for improving KoLmafia, and the fact that you research your bug reports before making them. Unfortunately for both yourself and the developers, you seem rather oblivious to the way in which your messages are received in the larger context. Imagine I walked into your home of the last decade or so and started criticizing your decor choices, and suggesting a better placement for your lamps:

"There is no good reason to have these lamps where you have them," I declare after looking around. "Would you like me to move these lamps for you?" I say, to show my willingness to be helpful by doing it myself. "I think we can all agree putting this lamp over there would distribute the light better, right?"

I suspect you wouldn't take my suggestions very kindly, as those lamps work fine for you where you put them, and by the way also you are the person who built your house in the first place, and who am I to come in here and tell you where to put things? Even if I had multiple degrees in interior design, you'd probably take these unsolicited suggestions personally, and your instinctive reaction would be to tell me in no uncertain terms where I could stuff your lamps, without even considering the merits of moving them. This is how your posts here tend to come across, at least to me. The developers you are hoping to engage with your posts, who built this house we call KoLmafia, quite understandably have difficulty overlooking this context to address the validity of your suggestions. This house was built as a labor of love, and therefore criticisms of the house will be taken personally; it can't be helped. Therefore, it's important to frame them in descriptive way that shows that you care about the same things:

Good: "KoLmafia does not yet track daily use of item X. Here is a patch that adds tracking for it." (helpful, descriptive rather than prescriptive)
Bad: "KoLmafia really should track daily use of item X. Does anyone even care about tracking this? Well, it turns out it's not that difficult to do myself so here's a patch." (self-glorifying, accusatory, prescriptive comments are confrontational)

I do hope this helps. I would like for you to be able to maintain your enthusiasm for improving KoLmafia, but without stepping on so many important toes.

ii) Darzil (and all the devs), I for one greatly admire and appreciate all the time and effort you have put into making KoLmafia the wonderful tool that it is. It has, in turn, provided me with a fun and meaningful hobby over the last decade or so, and that's something I can't put a value on. Thank you.

c) I find it helpful when reading Saklad5's posts to imagine them in the voice of a slightly grumpy Winston Churchill addressing a group of lords. It makes the tone issues more forgivable. Try it!
 
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