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Thread: "Orphaned" Scripts

  1. #11
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    My point is that you should at least try to ask first.

    Orphans get inherited by init and their return values are ignored.

  2. #12
    Developer fronobulax's Avatar
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    Not going to try and quote everything which means this will be disjointed.

    A couple dormant authors did not grant access to the repository to anyone who is currently active. Thus a fork would involve a new repository.

    I believe several people are updating scripts and not sharing. Anecdotal information suggests to me that some of them just don't want to share and others don't want to fork for fear of being accused of theft. Maybe the discussion will change some behaviors?

    I personally am not going to fork something unless I understand it well enough to maintain it. I am lazy.

    I feel like the scripting community is getting smaller. Perhaps that is because I have a long list of names of people who had contributed but no longer seem to be active. It may also be that the activity I am missing on kolmafia.us has migrated elsewhere. Perhaps I would think differently if I monitored Github discussions instead of complained about them.

    NewLife, EatDrink, WHAM, OCD, UR, some of Bale's relay scripts and bccascend come immediately to mind as things I wish were "more" up to date. Theraze (EatDrink) may still be active. While there are better ascension scripts, bcca did not rely on ITOMs and was less likely to do things like abort and tell you to find stone wool yourself and run again.

    cheesecookie - again you mention your changes to KoLmafia. Veracity has already said she'd be glad to look them over. I'll do you the same, giving you a choice between a starter and a benchwarmer to interact with. We can go to PM if you'd like.

  3. #13
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    IMO my ideal would be to put everything on git with a very permissive license, let people fork it and hopefully make reasonable pull requests that get merged back in to the original repo, and if the original author disappears then someone else's fork can become the primary version.

    Personally I've never really been bothered by something forking my scripts and running with them, I have a number I did a bunch of work on early on then got too busy to maintain them and fortunately for the more used scripts someone else stepped up to take it over. IMO I think generally massive incompatible changes (like renaming everything etc., I really really don't want to derail this discussion with that but I understand where you're coming from) in a fork is a bad idea, but if the forks are public least you can follow the commit history if on the same source control platform. I've been meaning to migrate all my stuff to github to make that easier as I really don't like using sourceforge but it's pretty low on my priority list. I don't want to speak for anyone else but personally while I've put a lot of work into scripts over the years I don't have a lot of attachment to the code I write but maybe that's just because most of the code I've written professionally is owned by the companies I've worked for.

  4. #14
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    Not going to try and quote everything which means this will be disjointed.

    A couple dormant authors did not grant access to the repository to anyone who is currently active. Thus a fork would involve a new repository.

    I believe several people are updating scripts and not sharing. Anecdotal information suggests to me that some of them just don't want to share and others don't want to fork for fear of being accused of theft. Maybe the discussion will change some behaviors?


    I personally am not going to fork something unless I understand it well enough to maintain it. I am lazy.

    I feel like the scripting community is getting smaller. Perhaps that is because I have a long list of names of people who had contributed but no longer seem to be active. It may also be that the activity I am missing on kolmafia.us has migrated elsewhere. Perhaps I would think differently if I monitored Github discussions instead of complained about them.
    Originally Posted by fronobulax View Post
    Maybe that is why I feel like the scripting community is quite large as I'm privy to hearing from unshared maintenance. I never did bother to check though.


    NewLife, EatDrink, WHAM, OCD, UR, some of Bale's relay scripts and bccascend come immediately to mind as things I wish were "more" up to date. Theraze (EatDrink) may still be active. While there are better ascension scripts, bcca did not rely on ITOMs and was less likely to do things like abort and tell you to find stone wool yourself and run again.

    cheesecookie - again you mention your changes to KoLmafia. Veracity has already said she'd be glad to look them over. I'll do you the same, giving you a choice between a starter and a benchwarmer to interact with. We can go to PM if you'd like.
    Originally Posted by fronobulax View Post

    The way players bring up issues (referring to the stone wool thing) is not always conducive to getting those things fixed. I didn't know there was an issue until I was finishing my code for the Vampyre path. Sometimes you get just a "this happened" and no follow-up. I had enough situations where it wasn't even my script that was causing the issue that if I can't get follow-up, I often have to disregard an issue.

    I didn't realize Veracity said that since there wasn't a response to my post. That being said, since you are explicitly offering, I will put some time into cleaning up my diffs (I need breaks while packing stuff anyway). PM need at some point about it so I have something to reply to.



    IMO my ideal would be to put everything on git with a very permissive license, let people fork it and hopefully make reasonable pull requests that get merged back in to the original repo, and if the original author disappears then someone else's fork can become the primary version.

    Personally I've never really been bothered by something forking my scripts and running with them, I have a number I did a bunch of work on early on then got too busy to maintain them and fortunately for the more used scripts someone else stepped up to take it over. IMO I think generally massive incompatible changes (like renaming everything etc., I really really don't want to derail this discussion with that but I understand where you're coming from) in a fork is a bad idea, but if the forks are public least you can follow the commit history if on the same source control platform. I've been meaning to migrate all my stuff to github to make that easier as I really don't like using sourceforge but it's pretty low on my priority list. I don't want to speak for anyone else but personally while I've put a lot of work into scripts over the years I don't have a lot of attachment to the code I write but maybe that's just because most of the code I've written professionally is owned by the companies I've worked for.
    Originally Posted by Rinn View Post
    The massive incompatible changes are my major point of ire in the two forks of my ascension script. I still think I prefer sourceforge's commit history but I've moved over to Github for privacy. It might be overkill, or excessive bureaucracy, to try to establish a license that scripters can use (of course, they wouldn't be required to use).

    I have generally felt that there is not a lot of collaboration amongst the scripters so I can't imagine the situation with forking and merging pull requests. All I know is that the way members of the community handled a script of mine has led me to dramatically reducing my public scripting contributions.

  5. #15
    Developer Veracity's Avatar
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    I didn't realize Veracity said that since there wasn't a response to my post. That being said, since you are explicitly offering, I will put some time into cleaning up my diffs (I need breaks while packing stuff anyway). PM need at some point about it so I have something to reply to.
    Originally Posted by cheesecookie View Post
    I thought I replied, but perhaps it was only in my own mind. Assuming I didn't, in fact, reply, I assume it's because I can only put in KoLmafia work on the weekend, these days, and have been under a lot of extra stress recently, so wan't sure I could commit to working with you in a timely fashion.

    I am certainly in favor of bringing in work that is generally useful - high quality, solves a problem that more than just the author has, and so on. Although I have been guilty of adding new built-in ASH functions for the benefit of a script I was personally working on, I hope that they've more general relevance.

    I'd like to see your code fixes and features so that we can import them, as appropriate, into the main code. Just as for everybody, I reserve the right to adjust them to fit style standards, use built-in functionality (which you may not have noticed) to simplify things, and so on. When holatuwol let me join the project, seems like every commit I made for a good long while had a follow up commit by him which did exactly that.
    Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu
    R'lyeh wgah-nagl fhtagn.

  6. #16
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    I thought I replied, but perhaps it was only in my own mind. Assuming I didn't, in fact, reply, I assume it's because I can only put in KoLmafia work on the weekend, these days, and have been under a lot of extra stress recently, so wan't sure I could commit to working with you in a timely fashion.

    I am certainly in favor of bringing in work that is generally useful - high quality, solves a problem that more than just the author has, and so on. Although I have been guilty of adding new built-in ASH functions for the benefit of a script I was personally working on, I hope that they've more general relevance.

    I'd like to see your code fixes and features so that we can import them, as appropriate, into the main code. Just as for everybody, I reserve the right to adjust them to fit style standards, use built-in functionality (which you may not have noticed) to simplify things, and so on. When holatuwol let me join the project, seems like every commit I made for a good long while had a follow up commit by him which did exactly that.
    Originally Posted by Veracity View Post
    Make sense, real life stuff is always a priority.

    I'm guilty of similar, it does provide that push to get stuff done.

    Thanks, I appreciate the response! I completely understand the need for a code review and will get my stuff sorted out for you to look at.

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