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Thread: Add proxy record field to effect tracking whether it is decremented by PVP

  1. #11

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    Why should this be built-in at all? It is only relevant for one PvP mini. A good way to support this would be a relay script that adds the value to one of the PvP pages, and that script can have a hardcoded list of effects that don't count.

    There used to be a GUI for PvP. I removed it because the idea of supporting various PvP minis (after the PvP revamp) seemed ridiculous.

  2. #12
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    First off, this isn’t just about one PvP minigame (not least because it affects two). This affects anyone with active effects who initiates PvP fights.

    Some effects are quite valuable, and it is useful to know which ones will be decreased through attacks. Right now, that information is not known, primarily because it is extremely tedious to manually keep track of every effect you have before and after each fight.

    Tracking and spading this is completely trivial for a computer program, however. As I mentioned earlier, one of my main concerns when contributing to any software project is the amount of future work my contribution creates. A GUI for each minigame requires an immense amount of maintenance, so I agree it wasn’t worth supporting. This feature, on the other hand, should be able to maintain itself, assuming no mechanical overhauls in the future.

    Besides, I think it is fair to say that KoLmafia has a precedent of including any information about the game that cannot be derived independently.
    Last edited by Saklad5; 01-09-2019 at 07:57 AM.

  3. #13
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    You can never assume no mechanical overhauls, KOL changes constantly. You should assume all new features require ongoing support and understanding.

  4. #14
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    First off, this isn’t just about one PvP minigame (not least because it affects two). This affects anyone with active effects who initiates PvP fights.

    Some effects are quite valuable, and it is useful to know which ones will be decreased through attacks. Right now, that information is not known, primarily because it is extremely tedious to manually keep track of every effect you have before and after each fight.
    Originally Posted by Saklad5 View Post
    What are you expecting to do with that information?

    I am expecting two types of PVPers, those that play the game for PVP, who will probably be micromanaging buffs for PVP, and those who are doing PVP to get swagger whilst concentrating on other things, who will be doing PVP every few days at one point (maybe just prior to prism break in Hardcore, when you have the most equipment etc and can't be hit straight back in hardcore).

    Which group will benefit from this information and how will it benefit them? Usually we add new tracking when scripters are calling out for the information to be tracked to allow them to improve scripts, and add new automatic spading when it allows Mafia to function without updates and handle new content.

  5. #15
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    I meant that, insofar as is possible, the feature won’t require much support.

  6. #16

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    Some effects are quite valuable, and it is useful to know which ones will be decreased through attacks.
    Originally Posted by Saklad5 View Post
    All effects that are valuable are decreased through attacks. If there is currently an exception to that, then I should probably push for it to be changed, but I can't imagine all the serious PvPers let that go unnoticed.

    Since Darzil and I agree that this would be a useless thing to add (as in, no one would benefit from it), this seems easy to reject.

  7. #17
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    Here’s my personal use case: my logout script tries to optimize for PvP as much as possible (without affecting rollover adventures and such). This includes removing buffs that would confer a disadvantage in PvP.

    I am in the second camp you described, by the way.

  8. #18
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    If you want a counterexample: “On the Trail” is not decremented.

    Also, I’m willing to code this myself, if you would accept the resulting patch. I’m not asking you to spend your own time on it beyond that.

  9. #19
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    Then add it into your logout script . . .

  10. #20
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    I did, with a hardcoded item array. However, I feel that properties of the effects themselves should be part of KoLmafia, as that is precisely the type of information that proxy records are meant to store.

    Moreover, a hardcoded array will become outdated quickly, and everyone would have to maintain their own copy. Sure, they could do it themselves, but they could also code a KoL client entirely from scratch.

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