GhettoTrucker
Member
oh lol...sorry then!
Ascnesion break-down
- Thread starter itamaram
- Start date
I've been poking my head back into this thread from time to time since it was written, and I really think that it is impressive how much KoLmafia has grown since April. Here's itamaram's original list:
Here are my impressions, based mostly on softcore ascensions (which are now three days long if you want to know what I mean by "Day 2"
):
(A) and (B) are pretty easy, as long as you can set yourself on a path of chow meins and whatever class of drinks are appropriate for you. The only time when there is any sort of problems is toward the end of the run when you have to decide if you want to mix in the grue egg omelet or to eat to balance your off-stats rather than being totally dedicated to your main stat.
A related and more vexing problem to me is (A') and (B') which is determining WHEN to eat and drink during your day. For instance, you want to give yourself the best chance you can to not get drunk while picking up the abridged dictionary, and I tend to not want to eat on Day 2 until I've finished the Goatlet so I can whip up some milk of magnesium. This is probably also more-or-less manageable, although it would be easier if you could set properties like "I have eaten today" that KoLmafia would clear at rollover, or a function that told you that it was the nth day of your ascension so that you could compare that to a set property that noted the last day you ate.
(C) is pretty well spaded out now. I've personally written scripts to cover every quest except fighting the NS and pulling the trapper's ore. Like with the eating and drinking, it is harder to figure out the proper time to undertake the quests, although this can be managed to a certain degree with user-defined variables that say when you've finished a quest.
I've never been able to take a big stab at (D) myself. If I could make one simple change to KoLmafia that would revolutionize the experience, it would be that CCS scriptlets would change from asking "What monster am I facing?" to "What is the difference between my buffed moxie and the level of the monster I am fighting?" Then you know if you want to plink or face-stab or run away. At the same time, I've gotten pretty far in the world with just plinking, so having a comprehensive combat strategy is frosting on the cake.
(E) and (F) are probably the central difficult questions about playing the game from a strategic standpoint, but with every release it becomes easier to implement your strategies in ASH.
The challenges are doubled in hardcore, because then you need to worry about additional problems like farming for food and meat which are trivial tasks for a suitably prepared softcore ascender.
Here are my impressions, based mostly on softcore ascensions (which are now three days long if you want to know what I mean by "Day 2"
):(A) and (B) are pretty easy, as long as you can set yourself on a path of chow meins and whatever class of drinks are appropriate for you. The only time when there is any sort of problems is toward the end of the run when you have to decide if you want to mix in the grue egg omelet or to eat to balance your off-stats rather than being totally dedicated to your main stat.
A related and more vexing problem to me is (A') and (B') which is determining WHEN to eat and drink during your day. For instance, you want to give yourself the best chance you can to not get drunk while picking up the abridged dictionary, and I tend to not want to eat on Day 2 until I've finished the Goatlet so I can whip up some milk of magnesium. This is probably also more-or-less manageable, although it would be easier if you could set properties like "I have eaten today" that KoLmafia would clear at rollover, or a function that told you that it was the nth day of your ascension so that you could compare that to a set property that noted the last day you ate.
(C) is pretty well spaded out now. I've personally written scripts to cover every quest except fighting the NS and pulling the trapper's ore. Like with the eating and drinking, it is harder to figure out the proper time to undertake the quests, although this can be managed to a certain degree with user-defined variables that say when you've finished a quest.
I've never been able to take a big stab at (D) myself. If I could make one simple change to KoLmafia that would revolutionize the experience, it would be that CCS scriptlets would change from asking "What monster am I facing?" to "What is the difference between my buffed moxie and the level of the monster I am fighting?" Then you know if you want to plink or face-stab or run away. At the same time, I've gotten pretty far in the world with just plinking, so having a comprehensive combat strategy is frosting on the cake.
(E) and (F) are probably the central difficult questions about playing the game from a strategic standpoint, but with every release it becomes easier to implement your strategies in ASH.
The challenges are doubled in hardcore, because then you need to worry about additional problems like farming for food and meat which are trivial tasks for a suitably prepared softcore ascender.
[quote author=Tirian link=topic=115.msg1704#msg1704 date=1154030232]
The challenges are doubled in hardcore, because then you need to worry about additional problems like farming for food and meat which are trivial tasks for a suitably prepared softcore ascender.
[/quote]
Or just go HCO and cut down the problems. Haha well I can say that for a HCO run that was mostly scripted I feel that my expected 40-50 day run is pretty good when I factor in the lack of using any skills.
In softcore terms I feel the only problems that we may encounter in (D). Unless we are attempting "Speed run scripts" (Which we really shouldn't in a script... well not "real" speed runs) then the problems also arise in (F) and possibly (E) depending on the tactic being used. (I take it most scripts are using the good ole plinking style? Well I am anyway =P training to buffed 180+ moxie for the NS hedge is not good use of adventures... without reagent potions it isn't anyway -_-)
Edit:[quote author=GhettoTrucker link=topic=115.msg1706#msg1706 date=1154031991]
Is thier a pre-packaged HCO script?
[/quote]
No there isn't, wrote it myself and is private in terms of actual script.
Anyway back to my discussion:
Point of view 1: (In Hardcore)
(A) and (B): The major factor is the question on farming the items or just go with what you pick up questing//training. When your on a path that question's influence is either halved or totally removed. In other words, in terms of "factors" a HCO run is much simpler then the other types of runs in scripting terms. The question of "When" to eat or drink may also come up although if your going to farm then clearly you eat after you finish farming. Drinking when is a question of guessing how far you will proceed into the game and depending on how far, "Is it safe to drink to just under my limit?".
(C): Minor point. I'm sure everyone agrees with me that quests are pretty much easily scripted. When to start doing the quests is a larger point. That question can be answered by questioning what type of combat strategy you are using, eg. "If plinking do the quest when you can safely plink".
(D): Personally I feel that the most basic scripted combat strategy is the plinking tactic. Of course when not a moxie class this tactic has a very very bad efficiency, especially when in HC. I am not familiar with the CCS personally so I can't make any comment. Oh but a LTS-synergy tactic isn't really that "hard" to script, you just have to assume you will encounter the hardest monster in that area and since the damage calculations are known also assume you will always do the minimum damage. (Hardest minus the ultra-rares)
(E): Because scripting combat well is very hard if not impossible with the current CCS capabilities (In terms of being universally viable) I feel that there is quite a simple equipment "priority" layout. Boost moxie, then muscle and then myst. Reserve the weapon slot for ranged weapons (Or a off-hand slot depending on skill set). Make sure your equipping function allows "Do not equip over this slot" because you may come across the need for elemental protection in equipments. (Lack of skill set causes this problem) Oh but don't forget you also need to factor in "To farm for equipment or just go with what I have?". This is another major question. (Although all the "farming" questions are pretty major I guess)
(F): Deciding where to adventure when your plinking for maximum stats is obvious, deciding where to adventure when plinking but also for "tower//lair" items is relatively simple. Deciding when to be looking for lair items rather then stats is the major problem with a plinking tactic (Or any tactic for that matter). One way is to wait until the lair before you try to get the required items, this method relies on RNG love... Attempting to get every required item in a run is also another way to do it, although this is just the first method just backwards and even more farming involved. The way I assume most people will do it is farm for items only when it will sacrifice only a "few" stat points and if the item doesn't drop then ignore the item and continue training.
Point of view 2: (In Softcore)
(A) and (B): Pull and use? Its the same as a HC run just without the farming. (Which makes the actual script a lot easier to write as you only have to factor in what you are going to be able to pull since if your farming for food//booze in a softcore run you really do need to prepare better.)
(C): Same as HC really.
(D): Ahh theres so many more possible combat strategies when in softcore since you can pull items to enable you to use those strategies. Once again I can't really comment on it though since I lack CCS or any real experience with combat strategy.
(E): Equip depending on strategy. Just pull what you need to equip so farming for items becomes less of a factor. (Although limited pulls in ronin may affect this and so therefore end up limiting viable strategies)
(F): If your in softcore you probably can handle most of the quests once you get them and the only real thing that will be holding you back is either base stats to do the NS stat req's and the quest items. So in other words, get the quests done ASAP and then train to maximise stat gains. Item farming is not a factor in softcore, or a lot less of a factor then it is in HC.
Point of view 3: (Speeding)
-_- Keep dreaming, you are not going to be making leaderboard runs in a script (even with massive RNG love), live with it.
Summary:
Scripting Notes:
Well thats it for me. Theres probably many many many things I have overlooked but I am "teh noob"
The challenges are doubled in hardcore, because then you need to worry about additional problems like farming for food and meat which are trivial tasks for a suitably prepared softcore ascender.
[/quote]
Or just go HCO and cut down the problems. Haha well I can say that for a HCO run that was mostly scripted I feel that my expected 40-50 day run is pretty good when I factor in the lack of using any skills.
In softcore terms I feel the only problems that we may encounter in (D). Unless we are attempting "Speed run scripts" (Which we really shouldn't in a script... well not "real" speed runs) then the problems also arise in (F) and possibly (E) depending on the tactic being used. (I take it most scripts are using the good ole plinking style? Well I am anyway =P training to buffed 180+ moxie for the NS hedge is not good use of adventures... without reagent potions it isn't anyway -_-)
Edit:[quote author=GhettoTrucker link=topic=115.msg1706#msg1706 date=1154031991]
Is thier a pre-packaged HCO script?
[/quote]
No there isn't, wrote it myself and is private in terms of actual script.
Anyway back to my discussion:
Point of view 1: (In Hardcore)
(A) and (B): The major factor is the question on farming the items or just go with what you pick up questing//training. When your on a path that question's influence is either halved or totally removed. In other words, in terms of "factors" a HCO run is much simpler then the other types of runs in scripting terms. The question of "When" to eat or drink may also come up although if your going to farm then clearly you eat after you finish farming. Drinking when is a question of guessing how far you will proceed into the game and depending on how far, "Is it safe to drink to just under my limit?".
(C): Minor point. I'm sure everyone agrees with me that quests are pretty much easily scripted. When to start doing the quests is a larger point. That question can be answered by questioning what type of combat strategy you are using, eg. "If plinking do the quest when you can safely plink".
(D): Personally I feel that the most basic scripted combat strategy is the plinking tactic. Of course when not a moxie class this tactic has a very very bad efficiency, especially when in HC. I am not familiar with the CCS personally so I can't make any comment. Oh but a LTS-synergy tactic isn't really that "hard" to script, you just have to assume you will encounter the hardest monster in that area and since the damage calculations are known also assume you will always do the minimum damage. (Hardest minus the ultra-rares)
(E): Because scripting combat well is very hard if not impossible with the current CCS capabilities (In terms of being universally viable) I feel that there is quite a simple equipment "priority" layout. Boost moxie, then muscle and then myst. Reserve the weapon slot for ranged weapons (Or a off-hand slot depending on skill set). Make sure your equipping function allows "Do not equip over this slot" because you may come across the need for elemental protection in equipments. (Lack of skill set causes this problem) Oh but don't forget you also need to factor in "To farm for equipment or just go with what I have?". This is another major question. (Although all the "farming" questions are pretty major I guess)
(F): Deciding where to adventure when your plinking for maximum stats is obvious, deciding where to adventure when plinking but also for "tower//lair" items is relatively simple. Deciding when to be looking for lair items rather then stats is the major problem with a plinking tactic (Or any tactic for that matter). One way is to wait until the lair before you try to get the required items, this method relies on RNG love... Attempting to get every required item in a run is also another way to do it, although this is just the first method just backwards and even more farming involved. The way I assume most people will do it is farm for items only when it will sacrifice only a "few" stat points and if the item doesn't drop then ignore the item and continue training.
Point of view 2: (In Softcore)
(A) and (B): Pull and use? Its the same as a HC run just without the farming. (Which makes the actual script a lot easier to write as you only have to factor in what you are going to be able to pull since if your farming for food//booze in a softcore run you really do need to prepare better.)
(C): Same as HC really.
(D): Ahh theres so many more possible combat strategies when in softcore since you can pull items to enable you to use those strategies. Once again I can't really comment on it though since I lack CCS or any real experience with combat strategy.
(E): Equip depending on strategy. Just pull what you need to equip so farming for items becomes less of a factor. (Although limited pulls in ronin may affect this and so therefore end up limiting viable strategies)
(F): If your in softcore you probably can handle most of the quests once you get them and the only real thing that will be holding you back is either base stats to do the NS stat req's and the quest items. So in other words, get the quests done ASAP and then train to maximise stat gains. Item farming is not a factor in softcore, or a lot less of a factor then it is in HC.
Point of view 3: (Speeding)
-_- Keep dreaming, you are not going to be making leaderboard runs in a script (even with massive RNG love), live with it.
Summary:
[li]Paths make scripting easier. (And ascensions even slower.)
[/li]
[li]Most problems arise with the question of "When" rather then "How".[/li]
[li]Current CCS doesn't really have the ability to support "efficient" battle scripting. (In terms of "Should I do X or Y?")[/li]
[li]Softcore will result in "More possibilities" with the storage pulls and therefore require more "Early stage planning" then hardcore.
[/li]
[li]Item problems arise mostly in HC rather then SC.[/li]
Scripting Notes:
[li]Having a "No skill" script and then adding extra bits for people with skills is probably easier then making a script that uses all skills and then adding bits for lack of skills.[/li]
[li]You need to accept that you will need to mine the mine or waste upto 6 pulls for the trapper. (Or do it manually)[/li]
Well thats it for me. Theres probably many many many things I have overlooked but I am "teh noob"
GhettoTrucker
Member
[quote author=Nightmist link=topic=115.msg1705#msg1705 date=1154030864]
Or just go HCO and cut down the problems. Haha well I can say that for a HCO run that was mostly scripted I feel that my expected 40-50 day run is pretty good when I factor in the lack of using any skills.
[/quote]
Is thier a pre-packaged HCO script?
Or just go HCO and cut down the problems. Haha well I can say that for a HCO run that was mostly scripted I feel that my expected 40-50 day run is pretty good when I factor in the lack of using any skills.
[/quote]
Is thier a pre-packaged HCO script?