Mafia and in-combat ML

There's an issue which is preventing me from completing my combat consult script -- I don't know which in-combat ML modifiers mafia tracks. I need to know this to determine the profitability of deleveling a monster.

Mafia does a thorough job of tracking ML adjusters outside of combat (effects, MCD, gear, etc), but I'm not so sure about things that alter ML during combat. I had actually assumed that mafia did not track any of it, which would have made the job easy, since I include known deleveling effects in the data files for all possible actions, and could keep a running tally of adjustments. However, it came to my attention that mafia does track at least DB combat skills.

Would like either 1) a little help spading from other users, or 2) some feedback from people who know mafia's code rather well (I suspect that would mostly just be devs).

My Questions

Does mafia track:

1. Deleveling familiar actions? If so, which familiars?
2. ALL deleveling combat skills?
3. Combat items. I very much doubt that mafia tracks these, but some of them have quite predictable results and could be added. The problem is, if one is added they all should be.
4. Anything not included in the above or in mafia's normal modifiers. Did I miss anything?

For all of these, there is the question of whether or not the actual deleveling amount can be determined from page source, and if not, if the ML-adjusting formulas are accurate. A table of in-combat ML adjusters can be found here.

I suspect this might be a good time to ask, since mafia's combat parsing is currently experiencing a bit of a revamp.

Spading

I suspect that a good way to spade this would be using the relay browser. Enter a combat, then enter the following in the CLI:

ash print(last_monster()+" - ATK: "+monster_attack()+" DEF: "+monster_defense())

This will give you the starting attack and defense values of the monster. Then, go back to the relay and use a deleveling skill/item, or stasis until your familiar delevels the monster. Then, return to the CLI and enter the above command again. If mafia has adjusted the ML, these numbers ought to be different.

I can confirm so far using this method that mafia appears not to track NPZR deleveling actions, nor the various chasm scrolls.

Ideal Tracking

If mafia is going to track any of these (items / familiars / skills) it would be very helpful to my script if it could track all or none of a given category. If it tracks any skill, it should track all skills. Likewise for items/familiars. I'm fine either way, but it would be a coding mess if mafia tracked some but not all of a given category.

The only tracked ML changes are currently from skills:

Well, that's it then. Excellent.

I would love it if someday mafia would support familiar deleveling, because dang, that's a lot of detection coding to add. I suspect this is why mafia doesn't support that though.

Pretty sure familiar deleveling will be missing from the first incarnation of the combat script.

When I think about how much work you put into the opening post of this thread it it must be a bit frustrating how simply your quest was completed. Still, I am glad the answer was so fast.

zarqon said:

Pretty sure familiar deleveling will be missing from the first incarnation of the combat script.

Click to expand...

I suspect I can live without that, but thanks. It does seem like an awful lot of work for the payoff.

I don't think this issue is fully resolved. I'd like a bit more discussion about what mafia should track.

Presently, it tracks one subset of possible actions that influence ML in combat. But if mafia is tracking anything that affects ML in combat, it makes sense for it to track everything. Otherwise, unless you're specifically tracking every action, you have no way of knowing whether mafia's ML-sensitive results are reliably base values or altered values. Could we / should we expect to see improved ML tracking in the future? Perhaps a category at a time?

I'd be happy to submit my data gathering (from the Wiki) or perform additional spading if it would help the devs in any way to add improved ML tracking to mafia.

Well... Now that I have (mostly) completed my refactoring of combat response parsing, I can easily detect familiar actions and combat item use and should be able to code in deleveling effects, given the data.

Let's see your Big Book of Familiar Action Suckage and your Devilish Descriptions of Devious Deleveling Devices, please.

And for the former, what do I see, if anything, in Haiku Mode? (Well, for the latter, too, I guess. What DOES it say if you use a plot hole in haiku combat?)

(I think I have full support, currently, for both Normal combat and Haiku combat, and I'd like to keep that going...)

Ok! I'm glad you're looking to add this, because I would rather mafia handled it than my script did -- that means a) less resources need to be loaded for each combat, and 2) other consult scripts can have accurate ML information available.

Now, Big Book it is! Most of the following is taken from the data files that we've been assembling for the combat script. Keep in mind that I have reduced ranges to average values, and if an item has a 50% chance of deleveling, I've written the delevel amount as 50% of the actual deleveling amount, since I want to calculate the average deleveling per round. First, there are some missing skills:

• All-You-Can-Beat Wing Buffet - delevels only monster defense by floor(sqrt(buffedmox))
• Falling Leaf Whirlwind - delevel 0.3*monsterattack-0.5
• Give Your Opponent "The Bird" - delevel sqrt(buffedmys)
• Mighty Shout - delevel (buffedmus+buffedmox)/2
• Spray Sap - delevel monsterlevel/6.66
• Tunnel Downwards - delevel ?? needs spading

After that, deleveling needs to be added for four cases:

1. a familiar performs a deleveling action.
2. a monster hits you and is deleveled by gear/effects
3. you hit a monster with a deleveling weapon
4. a deleveling combat item is thrown

Familiars

I don't have a list of deleveling familiars / action strings put together yet. I'd imagine quite a list of action strings, although familiars that only delevel (especially barrrnacle-types) might be able to test merely for the presence of action. You have far more experience with this sort of thing than I so it's probably better if you figure it out.

Gear / Effects

Certain gear or effects can delevel the monster if it succeeds in hitting you, or if you succeed in hitting it. Tracking these may require another numeric modifier (I'd recommend adding both "Retaliation Damage" and "Retaliation Deleveling") -- which would also be useful for streamlining my script.

Effects

• psalm of pointiness - delevels by 3 (and deals 6 dmg) when monster hits you
• biologically shocked - does elemental damage, and always delevels by about 2.5

Gear

• fishy wand - delevels by ?? when wielded by an underwater familiar

Ok, so I guess there's only one thing that does retaliation deleveling as yet. But there are quite a few that add retaliation damage, which my script will have to parse every time -- would be nice to add that as a numeric modifier, but that's a totally separate issue.

Deleveling Weapons
According to the Wiki, "delevel on hit" weapons act for 10% to 20% of weapon power in -ML.

• antique spear
• Drowsy sword
• 7-foot dwarven mattock
• clockwork crossbow (only on critical hit)
• knob bugle
• yak whip
• unionize the elves sign
• curdflinger

Combat Items - should be pretty comprehensive

• 30669 scroll - delevel 2
• 33398 scroll - delevel 2
• 64067 scroll - delevel 2
• 668 scroll - delevel 2
• 8-ball - delevel 2
• barbed-wire fence - delevel 4, stun 0.5
• black pepper - delevel 8.5
• bronzed locust - delevel 25
• Cloaca grenade - delevel 1.5
• depantsing bomb - delevel 17.5
• disease - delevel 2
• divine cracker - delevel 11
• Dyspepsi grenade - delevel 1.5
• fancy bath salts - delevel 4.5
• ferret bait - delevel 5
• gob of wet hair - stun 1, delevel 2.5
• golden ring - delevel 25, except vs. gaudy pirate
• handful of sand - delevel 7.5
• handful of sawdust - delevel 7
• inkwell - delevel 5.5, stun 0.5
• kite - delevel 9, stun 0.75
• Knob Goblin stink bomb - delevel 3, stun 0.5
• licorice garrote - probably delevels, needs spading
• macrame net - delevel 9, stun 1
• Miniborg Destroy-O-Bot - delevel 4, multi
• Miniborg strangler - delevel 4, multi
• mylar scout drone - delevel 8.25
• off-white plastic oyster egg - delevel 7, stun 0.5
• palm-frond net - delevel 10, stun 1
• patchouli incense stick - delevel 4, stun 0.5
• plot hole - delevel 4, stun 0.5
• possessed top - delevel 7
• potion of confusion - delevel 2.5
• potion of sleepiness - delevel 2.5
• potion of ettin strength - monster attack +??
• potion of mental acuity - ML +??
• potion of blessing - monster defense +25
• potion of teleportation - monster defense +17.5
• powdered organs - delevel 11
• roofie - delevel 4.5, stun 0.5
• sake bomb - delevel 5
• sausage bomb - delevel 17.5, stun 2
• shaving cream - delevel 2.5, stun 0.8
• spectre scepter - delevel 0.5, hp 1.5, stun 0.25, multi
• superamplified boom box - delevel 9, stun 1
• The Big Book of Pirate Insults - delevel 10, only when pirates fall to your insult fu
• Tom's of the Spanish Main Toothpaste - delevel 7, except vs. toothy pirate
• top - delevel 6
• vial of patchouli oil - delevel 4, stun 0.5
• wussiness potion - delevel 5

zarqon said:

All-You-Can-Beat Wing Buffet - delevel floor(sqrt(buffedmox))/3

Click to expand...

Hm? Where did you get that figure? According to the wiki, floor(sqrt(buffedmox)) is NOT divided by 3.

In the case of things that deleveled only attack, I considered them 2/3 their regular value. If they deleveled only defense, I considered it 1/3. I thought I re-converted those for this post, but missed that one. Good catch, eagle eyes, etc. Edited the list.

Interesting answer. Glad I caught it.

Turns out somehow all combat items after 'R' were missing, too. Added those.

Also, jiggling the Staff of the Walk-In Freezer delevels by 5 to 10.

I took a look at familiars. Here is what I have gleaned from the Wiki:

---------
Barrrnacle
"latches onto him and slows him down..."
floor( weight / 2)

Cocoabo
"squawks loudly and runs in a circle around your opponent. He looks a little bit confused"
floor( weight + 1 / 3)

Crimbo Pressie
"extends an appendage and uses a taser on <it>, despite <its> plea of "don't tase me, bro!" <It> twitches and looks weaker."
delevel floor( weight / 3 ) to floor( weight / 2 )

El Vibrato Megadrone
"says "TAFU: <opponent> BUGACHA, FUZEVEZEVECHO GACHOKUZ FUCHANOKCHA." as it performs a series of painful-looking body modifications on your opponent. He comes out of it looking a little worse for wear."
from 1 to floor( weight / 4) levels

Emo Squid
"whines to your opponent about his ex-girlfriend, depressing him... Sigh."
"writes the lyrics to a sad, sad song on the ground with his ink. Your opponent reads it and gets depressed"
floor( weight / 2)

Ghost Pickle on a Stick
"floats above your opponent and drips caustic juice on it"
floor( weight / 3)

Llama Lama
"spits on your opponent"
from 1 to floor( weight / 4) levels

Misshapen Animal Skeleton
"howls mournfully. Your opponent shudders, and, frankly, you're a little creeped out yourself"
1 to floor( weight / 3)

Ninja Pirate Zombie Robot
"shambles up to your opponent with a "Graaaaagh," and bites him on the head. He seems a little dazed by the experience."
floor( weight / 2)

Pair of Ragged Claws
"latches onto your opponent's face with his wriggling tentacles"
floor( weight / 2)

Penguin Goodfellah
"calmly walks up to your opponent and hits it in the kneecaps with a short stick, leaving it looking a little unsteady. "That one was on the house, kid."

Personal Raincloud
"rains on your opponent's parade. He looks sort of disappointed"
Delevels 1 to floor( weight / 4 )

Robogoose
"The egg extrudes poison-tipped spines and buries itself in your opponent. It turns green and looks sickly; looks like that poison went over hard."
Delevels ( weight + 4 ) / 3 levels

Spooky Pirate Skeleton
"looks your opponent in the eye, and lets loose a fierce "Arrrr." Your opponent shudders..."
Delevels 1 to floor( weight / 4 )

Temporal Riftlet
"engulfs your opponent. <He/She/It/They> come out looking slightly younger and less powerful."
floor( weight / 2)

Wizard Action Figure
"looks at you, looks at your opponent, and frowns. He points his wand at your opponent and shouts "Ittibittius Minimus!" Your opponent shrinks a bit"
---------

Plus, there are 3 or 4 haikus that indicate your opponent has deleveled the opponent.

I am very suspicious about some of the formulas listed. I think it's unlikely that each familiar has its own private formula. For example, why is a ghost pickle floor( weight / 3 ) and a cocoabo is floor( weight + 1 / 3 )? I bet that latter formula is wrong. Why is a Robogoose floor(weight + 4 / 3) levels? That is like floor( weight / 3) + 1 and is, probably, actually reflecting max( 1, floor( weight / 3 ) ) - and ALL of these formulae probably work like that. In fact, for the formulas which, supposefdy, delevel a variable amount - "1 to floor( weight / 4) " - really? How much data went into determining that? Is that, perhaps, supposed to be max( 1, floor( weight / 4 ) )?

How good IS the spading that came up with these formulae? Who did it, and what method did they use?

I've discovered a lot of things on the Wiki (even very old things) have "needs spading" flags -- or are simply not included, and some things even have multiple formulae given depending on which page you look at (look at familiars by type, then look at table of familiar abilities, then look at individual familiar pages... you may get something different each time!). The Bonerdagon blocks 25% of skills. The Bonerdagon blocks 50% of skills. I've found both.

All this to say, I've found the Wiki to be generally reliable and an awesome resource, but nowhere near authoritative. I'm fairly sure if you were to do some simplifying as you suggest above (give everything a max(1,floor(weight/n)) formula), it wouldn't create any noticeable problems.

Veracity said:

How good IS the spading that came up with these formulae? Who did it, and what method did they use?

Click to expand...

I'd recommend you make a post on the AFH Forum, explaining your reason for needing answers. Often people there know details about the spading that does not make it to the wiki, including which forumulae are better spaded. I'm certain someone there will have answers to some of these questions so that you can add the data to mafia.

Please keep in mind that this is only hearsay, but I've been led to believe that many of the regular wiki editors have given up in recent months, partially due to revert issues & the ensuing frustration. Again, I hate to mention hearsay, but if this is the case it could well mean that the days of reliable information from the wiki are severely numbered. So looking for a stable, alternative source of spaded data may be a good idea.

Ok, I went through the Wiki and got the strings associated with deleveling, as well as restored ranges and values that had been reduced by action rate. Hopefully this will help in adding accurate in-combat ML tracking to mafia!

Didn't include familiars, since that was already posted above. Also didn't include deleveling weapons, since the associated strings were not present on the weapon pages.

Strings and Associated Deleveling

• All-You-Can-Beat Wing Buffet - monster defense only - floor(sqrt(buffedmox))
  You furiously flap your wings, giving your opponent a sound buffeting.
• Falling Leaf Whirlwind - 0.3*monsterattack-(0 to 1)
  You spin in circles.
  Each turn makes your foe shorter
  by about an inch.
• Give Your Opponent "The Bird" - sqrt(buffedmys)
  You give your opponent "the bird."
• Spray Sap - floor(monster defense/6.66)
  You hold up your pendant and a gush of sap squirts out of it, covering your opponent with sickly sweet sap.
• Tunnel Downwards - ??
  You tunnel beneath your opponent, causing him to plunge downwards through the ground and sprain his ankle.
• Psalm of Pointiness - 1-5
  Your opponent takes 4-8 damage from your Psalm of Pointiness, and looks slightly worse for wear.
• Biologically Shocked - 10
  Your left hand is suddenly crawling with tiny stinging insects. You freak out, hurling them every which way. Some of them hit your opponent, leaving him scratching a multitude of tiny annoying wounds.
• Fishy Wand - ??
  <familiar> waves the wand and shouts, "wussius completo!" Your opponent slumps, barely able to support <it> own weight.
• 30669, 33398, 64067, 668 scrolls - 1-3
  You hand the X scroll to your opponent(s). He/They unroll(s) it, read(s) it, and look(s) slightly confused by it. Then he/they tear(s) it up and throw(s) the bits into the wind.
• 8-ball - 1-3
  You throw the 8-ball at your opponent. It gets behind it, and starts freaking out.
• barbed-wire fence - 1-7
  You throw the barbed-wire fence at your opponent, who gets tangled up in it. It rips it to shreds, but gets all scratched up in the process.
• black pepper - 7-10
  You throw the pepper in your opponent's face. He lapses into a sneezing fit.
• bronzed locust - 20-30
  You hold up the bronze locust. It glows brightly, and a swarm of locust descends on your enemy, picking its bones clean. Even if it wasn't obvious that it had bones.
• Cloaca/Dyspepsi grenade - monster attack only - 2
  You pull the tab on the grenade and throw it. Your opponent is simultaneously covered with sticky soda and hit for X damage worth of shrapnel.
• depantsing bomb - 15-20
  You throw the depantsing bomb at your opponent. his/her pants fall off, and he/she blushes and looks sheepish.
• disease - 2
  You give your opponent "the disease."
• divine cracker - 10-12
  You pull the ends of the cracker, and it makes a loud noise. Your opponent looks a little shaken up.
• fancy bath salts - 4-5
  You throw the bath salts on the ground in front of your opponent. Now nothing will ever grow there, but other than that, the act was pretty much completely pointless. Your opponent looks a little confused.
• ferret bait - 5
  You toss the bait on the ground in front of your opponent, who is promptly dive-bombed by a squadron of ferrets, suffering X damage in the assault and looking a little worse for wear.
• gob of wet hair - 2-3
  You sling the wad of hair at your opponent. It gets tangled up in it and is really, really grossed out. It ignores you while trying to get untangled from the sloppy, hairy mess.
• golden ring - 20-30
  You clonk your opponent on the head with the ring, leaving it dazed.
• handful of sand - 5-10
  You throw the sand in your opponent's eyes, like that one guy in Bloodsport. Man, that was awesome.
• handful of sawdust - 4-10
  You hurl the sawdust into your opponent's eyes, which immediately become red, irritated, and dry. Where's Ben Stein when you need him?
• inkwell - 4-7
  You pour the inkwell out on your opponent, blinding <it>.
• kite/mylar scout drone - 10-12
  As you get near <it>, you start winding the string around him snowspeeder-style, and tangle it all up. The <item> gets pretty much destroyed in the struggle.
• Knob Goblin stink bomb - 3
  A choking stench fills the air. Your opponent gags, stumbles, and falls over.
• licorice garrote - ??
  You sneak up behind it and strangle it with your garrote. Man, that's harsh. Sure, a licorice whip might whip your ass, but at least you can still breathe.
• macrame net - 8-10
  You toss the macrame net at your opponent. He gets all tangled up in it, while simultaneously suffering X damage worth of horrible rugburn. Like, ow, man.
• Miniborg Destroy-O-Bot - 3-5
  You flip the switch on the back of the Miniborg Destroy-O-Bot. In a flurry of cybernetic attachments, it stomps, strangles, shoots, stabs and annoys your opponent, dealing a grand total of X (+H) damage.
• Miniborg strangler - 3-5
  You flip the switch on the back of the Miniborg strangler. It's too small to really effectively strangle your opponent, but it gives it the old Miniborg College try. Your opponent rubs his neck, looking kind of irritated.
• off-white plastic oyster egg - 7
  You break open the oyster egg, and hundreds of tiny rubber toys leap out of it, and begin swarming around your opponent. He seems very confused.
• palm-frond net - 8-12
  You throw the palm frond net at your opponent. It struggles free of it, but gets all scratched up in the process.
• patchouli incense stick - 3-5
  You light the incense and fan the foul-smelling smoke toward your opponent. He lapses into a coughing fit
• plot hole - 3-5
  You throw the plot hole on the ground, and your opponent falls into it, sustaining X damage. <It> crawls out, looking a little worse for wear.
• possessed top - 6-8
  The top spins itself in front of your opponent, making it very dizzy.
• potion of confusion - 2-3
  You throw the <type> potion at your opponent. It shatters against him. He looks confused.
• potion of sleepiness - 2-3
  You throw the <type> potion at your opponent. It shatters against him. He yawns.
• potion of ettin strength - increases monster attack by ??
  You throw the <type> potion at your opponent. It shatters against him. He looks much stronger than before.
• potion of mental acuity - ??
  You throw the <type> potion at your opponent. It shatters against him. He looks much smarter than before.
• potion of blessing - increases monster defense by 20-30
  You throw the <type> potion at your opponent. It shatters against him. He looks much more stylish than before.
• potion of teleportation - increases monster defense by 15-20
  You throw the <type> potion at your opponent. It shatters against him. He starts disappearing and reappearing in random spots around you.
• powdered organs - 10-12
  You throw the powdered organs in your opponent's face. He coughs and sputters.
  or
  You throw the organs in Ed's face. As he coughs and gags, he says "Wait a minute... Are these my organs!? That is seriously not cool."
• roofie - 4-5
  You slip your opponent the roofie. By which, of course, I mean you chuck it at his head (or head-analogue) as hard as you can. It makes a satisfying thud, and your opponent looks pretty dazed, if those cartoon birds circling his head are any indication.
  or
  You slip your opponent the roofie. You figure the most subtle way to do that is to chuck it at its head as hard as you can. It hits it hard between the eyes, and it says "a whole lotta lumps" and passes out.
• sake bomb - 5
  You slam the sake bomb against a nearby table to prime it, and hurl it at your opponent. You cheer as it explodes, dealing X damage and leaving <them> reeling.
• sausage bomb - 15-20
  You toss the sausage bomb at your opponent, and it explodes, showering him with X damage worth of grease and knocking him out. Yech.
• shaving cream - 2-3
  You spray the shaving cream in your opponent's eyes.
• spectre scepter - 1-3
  You hold the spectre scepter aloft. It radiates a bright green light, and vines shoot out of it, entangling your opponent.
• superamplified boom box - 8-10
  You blast some rap-rock from the boom box in the direction of your opponent. Horrible, horrible sound waves buffet <it> for X damage, leaving <it> reeling.
• The Big Book of Pirate Insults - 10
  You flip open the Big Book of Pirate Insults and pick one at random.
  "<random insult>"
  The pirate stammers for a moment, finally blurting out "<inappropriate comeback>" He turns red with embarrassment.
• Tom's of the Spanish Main Toothpaste - 6-8
  You drop the tube of toothpaste on the ground and stomp on it, spraying your opponent in the face. He rubs his eyes.
• top - 6
  You spin the top in front of your opponent, making him very dizzy.
• vial of patchouli oil - 4
  You throw the vial of patchouli oil at your opponent. Your rage increases to epic proportions.
• wussiness potion - delevel 5
  You pour the wussiness potion on your opponent.
• Jiggling the Staff of the Walk-in Freezer - 5-10
  You jiggle the staff in the air, and a beam of intense cold strikes your opponent, dealing X damage and slowing it down a little.
• Spaghetti Elemental - ??
  <name> wraps its pasty tendrils around your opponent, leeching away some of their life-force. They are noticeably weakened by the attack.
• Spice Ghost - 5
  <name> shakes some of the spice into your opponent's eyes as he gets accustomed to his new body.
• Spice Ghost - range from 1 to ghost level
  <name> raises his power bands and fires a cloud of confusing spice at your opponent.
  <name> engulfs your opponent's head, raising a choking cloud of spice.
  <name> asks your opponent if she is getting enough oxygen, which is pretty much guaranteed to be "no," because of the choking cloud of spice around her head.

The text for all delevelling weapons is "Your opponent looks weaker...". In order to implement this, you'd probably have to run a cross-reference against the currently equipped weapon (and off-hand, if the character has Double-fisted Skull Smashing).

There's also "Your opponents look weaker..." for plural enemies.

Nemesis familiars!

Macaroni Duck delevels as a 10-lb barrrnacle with the farfalle bow equipped:
<name> flaps her wings, and tendrils of noodly force materialize around your opponent, entangling <its> limbs and slowing <it> down.

Autonomous Disco Ball delevels as a Spooky Pirate Skeleton (weight +20 for DB's):
"Situation deemed insufficiently copacetic," says <name> in its weird tinny voice. "Increasing local funk parameters." It begins to spin and emit bright flashes of multicolored light, dazzling your opponent.

Is there anything else I can do to help with this? At all? If so, please let me know. I really don't want to release a combat script that makes poor (even downright wasteful) decisions due to incorrect ML information (pretty sure it would keep using deleveling items/skills against stronger monsters, since their ML would not seem to decrease).

I noted the aforementioned tracking of the DB skills' deleveling recently while playing in the relay -- very nice. When I called my test script between relay rounds, it gave different results as the ML went down, which was exciting to see.

Autonomous Disco Ball delevels as a Spooky Pirate Skeleton (weight +20 for DB's)

Click to expand...

Actually, weight + min(2*[player level],20). Probably. But definitely not a flat +20.