Destroy All Monsters

zarqon

Well-known member
Booo, BatBrain is losing one of its most useful sources of criticism (at least, I guess such criticism will be reduced).

On the plus side, I guess you can focus on 1Up now. :)
 

Bale

Minion
Sorry. Hopefully Winterbay will try to pick up my slack.

1Up is an interesting and troublesome script. I'm working to make a general case for every possible source of restoration so I can sort them all without prejudice or special cases. I work on it off-and-on as the mood strikes me.
 

zanmatoer

Member
Thanks for all your work on this one Bale, I often found DAM to be more useful than WHAM in some situations, so I shall miss it!
 

Winterbay

Active member
Me too, I'd like to improve WHAM as much as possible (without adding "annoying" strategies like v-crisis and whatnot).
 

zanmatoer

Member
WHAM seems a lot more willing to throw an error and let the user deal with the problem than DAM, which more often than not will forge ahead (occasionally getting you beaten up in the process). Both of these scenarios are useful depending on playstyle at the time. Often I'd prefer a small chance of failure in return for a more automated approach. Other times I want to be a bit more optimal (often when in-run), then WHAM seems to be preferable. Or BatMan RE, which is ridiculously awesome, too.

Also I'm lazy enough that if WHAM stopped to let me deal with the combat I'd just switch to DAM mid-fight to let mafia deal with it, although I'm aware this is a terrible, terrible idea :D

Personally I think it would be better for the community if you both fostered a strong resentment for one another, driving you to constantly one-up each other with your combat scripts, but that's probably just me...

I think what I'm trying to say is that I'll miss being quite so spoiled for choice!

EDIT: This is all based on my extremely anecdotal evidence, I should add.
 

Bale

Minion
That's an interesting analysis. Perhaps Winterbay might be willing to add an option to make the script more determined and willing to fail...


Personally I think it would be better for the community if you both fostered a strong resentment for one another, driving you to constantly one-up each other with your combat scripts, but that's probably just me...

I agree. It would be awesome if we hated each other and aggressively developed our scripts to destroy the other's sense of purpose and self worth! Unfortunately I'm too lazy for that.

Eventually WHAM reached a point at which I was comfortable using it to save me a lot of time. You would be shocked how much of my playing time is lost to fiddling with a script or two. I simply cannot stop playing with my scripts. It's like automation exists only to consume my time instead of saving time. That's the real reason I was overjoyed to switch to WHAM. Finally I can relax and just let automation happen.

Of course that means I waste time playing with a different script instead. There's usually just one or two that consume me. C'est la vie. At least I get to waste my time elsewhere.
 

Crowther

Active member
You would be shocked how much of my playing time is lost to fiddling with a script or two. I simply cannot stop playing with my scripts. It's like automation exists only to consume my time instead of saving time. That's the real reason I was overjoyed to switch to WHAM. Finally I can relax and just let automation happen.
If these tools weren't open source and I couldn't play inside them, I wouldn't use them. I probably wouldn't be playing KoL. I love to sit and watch the automation, looking for problems and fixing them. I might claim I'm doing it to save time over clicking, but it's what I love to do.

I'm a bit stunned by how well these tools work together in a very complex and ever changing environment.

Bale, I don't think I've ever seen anyone take and give constructive criticism as well as you do. I've seen some better at one or the other, but not both.
 

Bale

Minion
Bale, I don't think I've ever seen anyone take and give constructive criticism as well as you do. I've seen some better at one or the other, but not both.

Thank you. I'm humbled by the compliment. Unfortunately a compliment won't increase the size of my pile of stuffed Hodgmen. ;)
 

Winterbay

Active member
WHAM seems a lot more willing to throw an error and let the user deal with the problem than DAM, which more often than not will forge ahead (occasionally getting you beaten up in the process). Both of these scenarios are useful depending on playstyle at the time. Often I'd prefer a small chance of failure in return for a more automated approach. Other times I want to be a bit more optimal (often when in-run), then WHAM seems to be preferable. Or BatMan RE, which is ridiculously awesome, too.

Also I'm lazy enough that if WHAM stopped to let me deal with the combat I'd just switch to DAM mid-fight to let mafia deal with it, although I'm aware this is a terrible, terrible idea :D

Personally I think it would be better for the community if you both fostered a strong resentment for one another, driving you to constantly one-up each other with your combat scripts, but that's probably just me...

I think what I'm trying to say is that I'll miss being quite so spoiled for choice!

EDIT: This is all based on my extremely anecdotal evidence, I should add.


There is a WHAM-zlib variable called WHAM_AlwaysContinue that is currently not used. Would re-purposing this variable to always enqueue the current best option, executing that and reassessing be a potential way to make the script slightly riskier and thus fit your style better?
 

fronobulax

Developer
Staff member
There is a WHAM-zlib variable called WHAM_AlwaysContinue that is currently not used.

Wrong thread but my biggest frustration with WHAM is when it aborts and then my next attack kills the monster. Now that I know the variable does nothing I'd vote for making it do something useful.

Wrong place to discuss, but my ideal combat option (script or CSS) would do the following:

Phase I of the Implementation:
Almost never return to manual control.
Almost never get me beaten up.
Stasis for the gremlins.
Identify spheres.
Identify potions.
Select between and execute physical and elemental attacks when monster is resistant.
Restore MP or HP when the alternative is losing the combat.

(Yes, except for gremlins, I have pretty much described a well developed CCS and native mafia functionality).

Phase II would include Phase I plus:
Stasis when it is both safe and profitable.
Destroy the monster "efficiently" where efficiency takes into account the cost of consumables used in the fight and the cost or restoring MP and HP lost but never places efficiency above defeating the monster.
 

zanmatoer

Member
Sorry for my absence, exams happened.

Thanks for your replies guys, love this community! To answer your question Winterbay, that WHAM_AlwaysContinue idea sounds perfect.
 

Bale

Minion
Yay! If you like Winterbay's suggestion then a long held dream can come true...
One combat script to rule them all, One combat script to find them,
One combat script to bring them all and in the darkness bind them.
 

Winterbay

Active member
Sorry for my absence, exams happened.

Thanks for your replies guys, love this community! To answer your question Winterbay, that WHAM_AlwaysContinue idea sounds perfect.

Then you'll be happy to learn that it's been implemented :)
I even turned it on myself and have not been beaten up yet (it's great with the bugbears that are unspaded and so setting a unknown_ml at a point of that it fails to find a killer action it can still execute things and win).
 
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