Temporary discontinuation of daily builds

holatuwol

Developer
Apparently, people have been downloading daily builds in order to do automated castle meat farming, even though the lag situation is bad enough that doing so is pretty much an asshat move. In response to this, daily builds are being discontinued and past daily builds since the release of 11.1 have been removed.

Apologies for the inconvenience.
 

holatuwol

Developer
I don't blame them for wanting to automate stuff when they're (a) probably used to it, and (b) are experiencing lag, and they aren't asshats for wanting to do so. However, what they're doing is asshat behavior, which anyone, even the nicest friendliest person in the world, is capable of doing.

I've pretty much stopped playing the game as a result of the lag situation. If people are making it even worse using a program I'm helping to develop before I can come up with a way to make it so that the effects aren't ... you know, absolutely nerve-breaking for anyone not using KoLmafia, I won't tolerate it. That's more or less the bottom line.
 

dangerpin

Member
OMGWTFBBQ!

Can we have some names for public ridicule and greenmail venting? No, probably not, hol is too cool for that kind of vigilante justice.

So if you are reading this, asshat in question, please realize that this whole project might go away because of what you are doing. If hol will deny so many of us the latest dailies to stop you from abusing the system and the website game that we all love so much, don't think for a second he won't shut this whole project down to do it if you can't stop this abuse!

I vote we just remove the (&^%)@# castle from the adventure list alltogether. I can't remember the last time I actually used Mafia in the castle except for testing anyway.
 

DQP

New member
How can you tell what people are using it for? Does it call home, did TPTMBG say something, or did someone with loose lips brag?

I second dangerpin, but go one better: maybe make a for-lag version that won't auto-adventure at all, but still manages casting, cooking, buying, custom combats, display case, and the other stuff that is so terribly painful in the regular interface. (Don't take this as me volunteering you for more work, I'm just suggesting an idea that might satisfy some of your greedy fan base and your own sense of propriety.)

And I promise not to be a dick and meat farm if a working daily was to find its way to me. I just want to ascend and don't want to have to look-up all the low-level cocktail recipes. :)

:dqp-
 

holatuwol

Developer
[quote author=DQP link=topic=997.msg4988#msg4988 date=1182983420]
How can you tell what people are using it for?  Does it call home, did TPTMBG say something, or did someone with loose lips brag?  
[/quote]

The last of the mentioned items.  It's possible that the lag situation isn't as terrible as I'm imagining it, since (1) my Internet connection is crap anyway and the one minute page loads might largely be on my end, and (2) I'm only reading this thread for information about the lag situation.

In the event that lag does get better (namely, if everything is tolerable during peak hours), feel free to tell me, and I'll revise my stance.
 

DQP

New member
I'm finding the minor lag pretty tolerable right now, too. I wish that there was some way to push 'attack' ten times when killing these hippies, though... :dqp-
 

Kazim

New member
[quote author=holatuwol link=topic=997.msg4984#msg4984 date=1182977436]
Apparently, people have been downloading daily builds in order to do automated castle meat farming, even though the lag situation is bad enough that doing so is pretty much an asshat move. In response to this, daily builds are being discontinued and past daily builds since the release of 11.1 have been removed.

Apologies for the inconvenience.
[/quote]

Just for the record, I only tried to download the daily build because I like the automatic buff adjustment and mana restores. Other than that, I'm perfectly content to do everything the slow way.
 

OlyveOyle

New member
I haven't used mafia at all since a few days before NS13, and I see no difference in what I'm experiencing now that I did five days ago. Unless those daily builds have the new areas and content in them already, having the builds up or not isn't going to make a bit of difference to whatever lag people may be experiencing.

People have waited a long time for NS13 to roll out, some have been bored and didn't play as much, the new content has them trying to see as much of it as they possibly can, drinking it all in, trying to figure it all out, and in my case spending even more time trying to figure things out because the quests aren't as straight forward as they have been in the past.

As for the comments for others asking for something to be released they can use to alleviate some of the cocktail crafting, cooking, display case, pain in the tush operations; if that's all you're going to be doing, I suggest that you use an older one. Log in, do it up fast, log out and open your browser for adventuring. For the new items to use and make things with and adventuring, go into a browser and figure them out. This stuff shouldn't be missed by adventuring automatically, you've waited a long time for it, its here, savor the fun of it, the complexity, the skill that went into just an amazing addition to the game.

-OO
 

asturia

Minion
ok, thanks for the info.
I will not post new daily builds untill end of next week.

kind regards
Asturia
 

johngnash

Member
Wow, punishing an entire community because of one "asshat"
You know, you could just mess with people and insted of punishing everyone by making them deal with a broken program, why not make a quick fix and (like when you try adventuring with a NPZR anywhere) turn off some of the automation aspects until you lag less. At least then we can use the program. Heck make it stop everything after 10 adventures, or even 1. Turn off adventuring in scripts.

Then make a daily build to fix it when lag is less. BTW if you play during the days insted of right after rollover, there is never lag. i think only Monday i had any trouble at all.

BTW I'm not trying to be offensive, I'm trying to find a compromise since i cant even get mafia to work (with or without updates) more than 1 time before i have to delete it all and re install, and if i try using a single adventure as it is, it gets locked up on an endless loop and doesn't do a thing.
 

Darkness

New member
I down loaded a daily build so I could use the reply browser and avoid the item pages in the lag...
I have used multies for a bit of manual spading but not farming (and I have stopped spading with them because I have trouble using all the turns on my main anyway).

Its a shame that people dont think "hmm lots of lag I should not login my less important characters and stick to my main"...

Mafia is such a good tool. I found it very hard to play in the regular browser especially once I obtained millions of new items and the item pages got totally out of control.
 

Tsouga

New member
I believe this is a VERY fair decision.
In a few weeks, the people that are using Mafia just to Farm will be bored and done again, and life will be back to normal.
Personally, All I use mafia for is the nice links in the Web interface, and the Full/Drunk/Spleen numbers on the UI.
 

Tom Sawyer

Member
Ok I will chime in and admit to being the asshat in question.

I have 2 characters in the game, one being Tom Sawyer the other Tom Sawyer Jr. Once I discovered mafia way back when I began using it and realized how much of an aid it was.

Cutting to the point when NS13 came out and Mafia 11 went down I began adventuring manually and suffering. Then I recalled the daily builds and tried out the one before 40000 and found it worked in that I could see my buffs and use it to mix and cook stuff.

Then I admit to making the mistake of using my multi to try out an auto farm run in the castle. I DID NOT THINK ABOUT THE LAG for which I apologize to the fellow KOL players.

I only ran it once but again I should have thought of the lag. Since then I have used mafia as I tend to, help create food and booze and to track my buffs. My post over on kol forums was meant as a compliment to those who work hard on Mafia and having re-read what I posted realize what an ASSHAT I was.

I am not seeking to pander an excuse and offer no defense. What I did was unthinking and wrong and to those who have created Mafia please accept my apology.

To my fellow players you can find me hanging in channel HC as that is the only style of play I enjoy.

Again I am sorry for being an asshat and causing the daily builds to go down. No excuse on my part and my apology can not undo what is done.

I made a huge mistake and I own up to it. :'(
 

Pinky

New member
I agree to the decision to halt the releases till things settle a bit.

Mafia is an excellently done aid to the Kingdom of Loathing game. Kudos to all who work on its development.

The ease of use of Mafia does allow for abuse in the game though, and right now the servers are mighty busy on their own.

I personally have greatly increased my server hits as I try to work out a new way for a Moxie class character be more efficient than just slugging it out with a crossbow. Till then I am taking forever, and enjoying the change.

Thanks to all involved with this project.
 

aukestrel

New member
I am a KoL newbie (defined as "I have only been playing since last summer and have never completed a hardcore run") but wow do I depend on Mafia for stuff that it's just... repetitive to do. Like climbing the Tower... I *can* do it but I've done it. Lots of times. And changing outfits automatically at the Hippy Camp - it's just handy. For the rest of it, I actually tend to play turn by turn because I like reading the text and I still find things like "biting and growling in a way that ordinary writing desks hardly ever do" very amusing. I'm easily amused... :) Also for the strange leaflet quest even though I *played* the original Zork and it ought to be easy for me. It's not!

So I understand if daily builds are discontinued; just chiming in to say that I am so n00b that I don't even know how they're useful and they're not what I personally use Mafia for.
 

DQP

New member
What an amazing shitstorm is going down in the kingdom forums KoLmafia thread! It seems like just a couple of jerks and hundreds of angry counter-posters dog-piling on to cut them down over semantics. It's all the pissiness from the NS13 thread looking for somewhere else to go. (Isn't there a Star Trek about something like that?) I think that I'm done reading that thread for a while: the noise to information ratio is off the scale. Hopefully it won't follow me over here -- or if it does, maybe Daychilde will just /baleet them. :)

I am interested in something that was tossed around over there though. Being open source, you've really painted yourself into a corner with trying to keep mafia from being used as a farm-bot. People (including me) have suggested issuing a crippled mafia, but anything that you put into the code could be probably be removed by a moderately competent programmer. Anyway, it seems like hobbling wouldn't work without Asymmetric doing something on their end too.

If I may ask, what are your plans? I could imagine that you are pretty disappointed with the weird anger over at the kingdom forums, and I don't see any obvious way other than withholding mafia for you to keep people from using it in ways that bother you. Or would an answer be emboldening to the few posters who seem to want mafia to die, apparently because they can't use mafia right now. (Huh?) I'm not asking for a release, just wondering if you're planning on continuing development and if you are, if you're thinking about how to deal with the good mafia/bad mafia issue the next time that this comes up.

:dqp-

Edit: Apparently I have been followed. I wonder what place free speech has when you come into someone's own house to shit on them?
 
Grr!!! The post I just deleted was well I don't want to go into flaming. It just does not belong in this community.

To the poster I will say it's simple respect for those who do play the game. If you want to meat farm, then by all means do it, but have respect for those who actually enjoy playing the game, and allow them to continue enjoying the game. How? By either doing it by hand like everyone else or by just not doing it for a while.

Let me just say that I too am primarily a meat farmer/item farmer whichever is more profitable at the time, but I would never talk like that to the creator of the program that makes it easier for me do. I also take some time off and either enjoy the new content, or just don't farm during high times of lag.
 
Now I'm no asshat, but I've noticed its pretty much leveled out. I haven't seen much lag since day two of NS13. Any word on when we could start seeing builds again?
 

holatuwol

Developer
[quote author=Ralph The Wonder Llama link=topic=997.msg5094#msg5094 date=1183675661]
Now I'm no asshat, but I've noticed its pretty much leveled out.  I haven't seen much lag since day two of NS13.  Any word on when we could start seeing builds again?
[/quote]

The daily build forum will be placed back into public view if/when the next release is ready. No sooner than that.
 

kitsunenine

New member
Sourceforge

Am I just being an idiot, or are there no packages at all of KoLmafia on sourceforge.net? I just updated KoLmafia last night and it's now deciding to eat itself, simply giving unexpected errors instead of even logging in. :p
 
Top