Feature Clan Stash Karma Tracking

Saklad5

Member
Right now, KoLmafia seems to assume that players have unlimited Clan Karma and access to 0-karma items. When that is not the case, using the Clan Stash often runs into errors. This is especially annoying when using the Modifier Maximizer.

It should be intelligent enough to recognize that items you cannot withdraw are not available. This would make it feasible to use the stash during automation and general gameplay without failing, which is more or less the intent of the feature.
 

Darzil

Developer
Try again without the passive aggressive crap if you want anyone to do anything more than banning you ?
 

lostcalpolydude

Developer
Staff member
If I were to make any change, I might add a check for unlimited stash access, and completely disallow automated stash use when that isn't the case. Partly as a knee-jerk reaction to the request here. But, as a person that has never allowed mafia to automatically use the stash, it almost makes sense to me.

Luckily, I'm too lazy to make any change at all related to this.
 

Saklad5

Member
Try again without the passive aggressive crap if you want anyone to do anything more than banning you ?
Sorry, I didn’t mean to come off that way. I would like to make it so items that the player cannot withdraw from the stash are ignored. If we all agree this is a useful feature, I’ll submit a patch that implements it.
 

Saklad5

Member
If I were to make any change, I might add a check for unlimited stash access, and completely disallow automated stash use when that isn't the case.

If anything, I’d disallow automated use unless there are restrictions. Especially in the case of zero-karma items.

The main reasons I want to use the Clan Stash are:
1. effectively half-price NPC store items
2. discovering recipes
3. replacing items stolen in PVP

Since my clan limits members to spending 1000 Karma per day and no zero-karma items, there’s little risk of unintended abuse. If there was a chance that I’d be accidentally pulling IOTMs or something, I’d never use this feature.
 

Darzil

Developer
Just realise that in most of the clans that are well established old ones, there are no limits on using Clan Stash, other than ones enforced socially.

So anything in them is fair game for Mafia, if you set it up that way.
 

Saklad5

Member
Not just that, but different people can have different rules.

Thankfully, they are shown in the Clan Stash screen, and I could easily write a regular expression to parse that.
 

lostcalpolydude

Developer
Staff member
I feel like most useful stashes either fall into the category of "everyone can do whatever they want, because we trust each other" or "this is free stuff to help out new players". The former is currently supported, and the latter is a situation I never felt comfortable using even when I didn't have much.
 

Saklad5

Member
So, if I write a patch for this, will it be accepted? There are four features I would like to add:
  • int get_clan_karma(): returns the amount of clan karma the player has
  • int get_available_karma(): returns the amount of clan karma the player can still spend before rollover
  • int get_available_zero_karma_items(): returns the amount of zero-karma items the player can withdraw before rollover
  • modifying the retrieval logic to ignore items that cannot be withdrawn
 

Darzil

Developer
Main thing you will need is adding reading and tracking of clan karma into stash parsing and database, and to add appropriate preferences for the handling different people are likely to want, based on different usage of stash in different clans. Then need to build handling of that into storage request, maximzer, inventory manager and probably quite a few other places.
 

Saklad5

Member
I was under the impression that pretty much everything in KoLmafia used the same retrieval code. Is that not the case?

As for appropriate preferences, the current approach pretty much treats the clan stash as an extension of the player’s inventory. Conceptually, I think it is more accurate to think of a clan stash like a cross between a player store and a coinmaster: it has a finite and dynamic stock, and accepts an alternate currency. How players actually want to use it is beyond the scope of this feature request.

I want to track the explicitly defined permissions a character has regarding the clan stash, all of which are displayed when you open it. I cannot, and do not intend to, account for rules made by humans to be understood by other humans, as that is more or less impossible. Besides, I can’t imagine any changes that would cause KoLmafia to violate such rules more than the current implementation.

Instead of trying to withdraw items and failing, I want KoLmafia to understand which items can be successfully withdrawn in the first place. If a character has no karma limit and unlimited access to zero-karma items, then that means all items can be withdrawn. Whether or not they are supposed to be withdrawn is not a factor.
 

lostcalpolydude

Developer
Staff member
I am fundamentally against making it easier to use the clan stash in situations where karma is limited. So I disagree with the basic goal that you want to accomplish.
 

lostcalpolydude

Developer
Staff member
You are opposed to fixing bugs with the current system?

I am opposed to anyone that has limited karma access using any automated system to access the clan stash. The only change I would be in favor of is making it impossible to use mafia to retrieve from the clan stash for people with limited karma access. Automating stash use seems like an abuse of the generosity that I see as the purpose for those types of clan setups.

So I can agree that the current setup might be considered a bug. But you wouldn't be happy with anything that I consider a suitable fix.
 
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